Will Heathrow expansion mean more trains and lines?

[thenorthern]

Given that Heathrow expansion and 3rd runway is on now will it mean more trains and better links to Heathrow airport and has anything other than Crossrail been planned or approved for the airport?

I am only asking as the although its by fair the busiest airport in the United Kingdom and the government bangs on about connectivity both within the United Kingdom and with other countries.

When looking at Heathrow's rail links however compared to most major airports they are very poor as only one line of the London Underground, a non-National Rail operator (Heathrow Express) and a slow service to London (Heathrow Connect) serve the airport. There are also no long distance services, no services to outside Greater London and no particularly fast services.

Compare this to Manchester Airport, Gatwick Airport, Birmingham Airport, Southampton Airport, Stansted Airport and Luton Airport all of which are much smaller but have a station with direct links to many parts of the country.

 

[Bobandirus]

I know its not directly next to Heathrow, but isn't this part of the reasoning for Old Oak Station being planned?
I imagine a much more frequent shuttle from there to Heathrow might work well.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Hopefully this may be the catalyst to reopening the debate on Airtrack to connect Heathrow with the SWT network.

 

[Clip]

I think something will be built to go further but isnt the idea of it being a hub is that you fly in from regional airports to connect onto others thus negating people from far and away within reason, to actually have to get a train there?

 

[PeterC]

Should - yes
Will - unlikely

 

[daikilo]

Hopefully this may be the catalyst to reopening the debate on Airtrack to connect Heathrow with the SWT network.

It should be relevant for any developments to surface transport both for air users and for airport workers, and indeed will be needed otherwise congestion will worsen. This does of course mean that locals should be concerned about other transport infrastructure than just the runways.

 

[matt_world2004]

Hopefully this may be the catalyst to reopening the debate on Airtrack to connect Heathrow with the SWT network.

By the time any airtrack connection is built it will be the London Overground network and judging by the empty heathrow connects and expresses that either pull into or go through hayes, There appears to be excess capacity already.

 

[Rick1984]

A good reason why HS2 should have served Heathrow from day one.

 

[thenorthern]

Given the importance of Heathrow its rather odd that Birmingham International station has just as many main line services to Central London (I think they both have 6 per hour) as Heathrow does. Also it seems rather odd that Birmingham International has a regular direct rail link to many nearby towns to Heathrow such as Reading, Watford and Basingstoke but Heathrow doesn't have a rail link to any of them.

 

[The Planner]

Why is it odd, the airport wasnt always on that side of the runway at Birmingham and International is only about 40 years old and sits where trains passed to London anyway. Has the western link to Heathrow been canned now?

 

[Dr_Paul]

I have always felt that the Piccadilly extension was a poor substitute for a proper rail link. As a tube line it has the smallest size of all passenger stock in regular service; it is a heavily-used commuter line, and anyone using it knows the problems involved with a mix of often impatient commuters and air passengers who are sometimes unsure of their bearings and who usually have heavy luggage.

Although the two services from Paddington have taken off some of the pressure, the Piccadilly line can still get very overcrowded at rush hour on the Heathrow services.

 

[hwl]

Has the western link to Heathrow been canned now?

No - http://www.networkrail.co.uk/westernraillinktoheathrow/
And LB Hounslow have been promoting a new Southern link scheme for about a year that bypasses the level crossing problems

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hopefully this may be the catalyst to reopening the debate on Airtrack to connect Heathrow with the SWT network.

There was an MP on earlier wanting just that.
Unfortunately, it was canned by Philip Hammond when he was Transport Minister, because of the impact on existing local lines (mainly about level crossings).
Crossrail is coming to Heathrow, and the western rail access to Heathrow is on the Network Rail CP6 agenda.

I did notice an air service to Liverpool featured in the extra services when Heathrow got its new runway.

from DfT
A third runway will also support new connections to the UK’s regions as well as safeguarding existing domestic routes.
Heathrow has proposed a further 6 new routes to Belfast International, Liverpool, Newquay, Humberside, Prestwick and Durham Tees Valley to be added after expansion.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Given that Heathrow expansion and 3rd runway is on now will it mean more trains and better links to Heathrow airport and has anything other than Crossrail been planned or approved for the airport?......

Crossrail is now only a couple of years from being fully operational, which will in itself bring about wider opportunities for connectivity across Greater London and much of the SE.

The next important and significant rail link to Heathrow, is the western rail access (formerly known as WRatH).
This is no longer a proposal, but a committed project that is already underway and is passing through a 2nd stage of consultation at the present time.

Preliminary construction work for the western rail access was due to commence in April next year (in only 6 months time). However the project has been delayed by 2 years due to both the logjam in the number and scale of major NR projects and by a need to extend and widen the consultation process.

In making his formal announcement on the Heathrow 3rd runway, to the HoC today, the Secretary of State for transport, Chris Grayling addressed questions about rail access from the west and south west, by confirming on two occasions that the western rail access project was going to be delivered before the new runway is built.

Interestingly, he also stated that the southern access, to the SWML, is also to be prioritised by NR.



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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There was an MP on earlier wanting just that.
Unfortunately, it was canned by Philip Hammond when he was Transport Minister, because of the impact on existing local lines (mainly about level crossings).
.....

Interestingly, the reference to southern rail access does not appear to involve Airtrack, which you rightly say was canned; but rather a link to the SWML.
Chris Grayling's response to one question about SW links, suggested that the MP would have two options to access Heathrow from the SW by rail, via GWR, or SWT.

 

[hwl]

Crossrail is now only a couple of years from being fully operational, which will in itself bring about wider opportunities for connectivity across Greater London and much of the SE.

The next important and significant rail link to Heathrow, is the western rail access (formerly known as WRatH).
This is no longer a proposal, but a committed project that is already underway and is passing through a 2nd stage of consultation at the present time.

Preliminary construction work for the western rail access was due to commence in April next year (in only 6 months time). However the project has been delayed by 2 years due to both the logjam in the number and scale of major NR projects and by a need to extend and widen the consultation process.

In making his formal announcement on the Heathrow 3rd runway, to the HoC today, the Secretary of State for transport, Chris Grayling addressed questions about rail access from the west and south west, by confirming on two occasions that the western rail access project was going to be delivered before the new runway is built.

Interestingly, he also stated that the southern access, to the SWML, is also to be prioritised by NR.



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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Interestingly, the reference to southern rail access does not appear to involve Airtrack, which you rightly say was canned; but rather a link to the SWML.
Chris Grayling's response to one question about SW links, suggested that the MP would have two options to access Heathrow from the SW by rail, via GWR, or SWT.

As mentioned in my comment above there are new southern scheme options including is one LB Hounslow has been promoting that benches off after Feltham that avoids as many of the LC issues of the previous one as possible:

www.networkrail.co.uk/Southern-Rail-Access-to-Heathrow-Feasibility-Study.pdf

(Feltham LC is being closed anyway)

 

[zoneking]

I have always felt that the Piccadilly extension was a poor substitute for a proper rail link. As a tube line it has the smallest size of all passenger stock in regular service; it is a heavily-used commuter line, and anyone using it knows the problems involved with a mix of often impatient commuters and air passengers who are sometimes unsure of their bearings and who usually have heavy luggage.

Although the two services from Paddington have taken off some of the pressure, the Piccadilly line can still get very overcrowded at rush hour on the Heathrow services.

An additional problem is that some westbound Piccadilly Line trains terminate at Northfields. How crazy is that? People want to go to Heathrow airport, not Northfields. All westbound Piccadilly line trains should continue to Heathrow. It is also time to start running a service on the rail line that is part of national rail, oyster and the zonal system. People like me have no choice but to use the tube.

 

[D365]

It is also time to start running a service on the rail line that is part of national rail, oyster and the zonal system. People like me have no choice but to use the tube.

Isn't that what Crossrail is going to be?

 

[thenorthern]

All the new short distance things are good but are there any plans for long distance intercity trains? I know there was talk of HS2 stopping there but it wasn't on the final route.

It just seems strange that the main airport in the country that the government bangs on about and how expanding it will benefit everyone but they don't plan to add a rail link so most the country can get to it.

For that reason though I think Gatwick would have been a better choice as it has a mainline station already which is the 23rd busiest station in the whole country.

 

[edwin_m]

Part of the problem is that Heathrow is so spread out so there is no one place that could satisfactorily serve all terminals without people having to use a further shuttle or train link. Once people have to change somewhere, they might as well do so at Old Oak - hopefully some sort of limited stop service can be laid on that avoids the clash between airport passengers and commuters. I'm not currently clear what will happen to terminals but the BBC suggested an eastern one on the T2 site and a T6 somewhere out to the west. These are hopefully in enough of a straight line to be served by a single train instead of the rather unsatisfactory T4/T5 split we have today.

Every HS2 service will call at Old Oak, whereas a HS2 Heathrow branch would only carry a couple of trains every hour, so after opening of HS2 Phase 2 Old Oak is likely to be the best option for passengers to and from the Midlands and North.

I don't think the service pattern on the Western Rail Link has been agreed yet, but hopefully it will serve Reading and then continue towards either Oxford or Bristol with connections for the other route. Some kind of southern link is also badly needed, but very difficult to make it work with a congested rail network as well as the level crossing issue.

If all these things happen then feeder flights will only be quicker than the train for Scotland and the far west, and perhaps Northern England on a temporary basis until completion of HS2 Phase 2.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think the service pattern on the Western Rail Link has been agreed yet, but hopefully it will serve Reading and then continue towards either Oxford or Bristol with connections for the other route. Some kind of southern link is also badly needed, but very difficult to make it work with a congested rail network as well as the level crossing issue.

The Western route study already includes a likely Western Rail link service to Basingstoke (or further) via Reading, as well as the more obvious GW destinations. I don't think the Southwestern possibility is any less likely than the others, in the way it is written. Direct Southern access to somewhere like Woking or Guildford via the Staines area doesn't cause the same issues the original Airtrack scheme had, which were mostly to do with the routes towards Waterloo. A west facing bay at Staines would tick a lot of boxes without running towards Waterloo.

 

[hwl]

An additional problem is that some westbound Piccadilly Line trains terminate at Northfields. How crazy is that? People want to go to Heathrow airport, not Northfields. All westbound Piccadilly line trains should continue to Heathrow.

Given the shortage of Piccadilly line trains what other Piccadilly services would you cut instead?

 

[AM9]

Seems like everybody here is fully convinced that Heathrow will be expanded according to the Government's suggested timetable.

 

[DerekC]

. Some kind of southern link is also badly needed, but very difficult to make it work with a congested rail network as well as the level crossing issue.

Everyone posting on this thread about links to Heathrow from south/south west should read this first (link kindly provided by hwl a page or so back):

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Southern-Rail-Access-to-Heathrow-Feasibility-Study.pdf

 

[thenorthern]

The man in charge of Heathrow says that it would help the country as it can mean direct links to other parts of the country.

 

[SephenWorceste]

An additional problem is that some westbound Piccadilly Line trains terminate at Northfields. How crazy is that? People want to go to Heathrow airport, not Northfields. All westbound Piccadilly line trains should continue to Heathrow. It is also time to start running a service on the rail line that is part of national rail, oyster and the zonal system. People like me have no choice but to use the tube.

Perhaps the trains are returning to Piccadilly Line depot just beyond Northfields. They could continue to Heathrow and then return to Northfields but then that would seem crazy from Heathrow.

Best wishes, Stephen.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Antman]

An additional problem is that some westbound Piccadilly Line trains terminate at Northfields. How crazy is that? People want to go to Heathrow airport, not Northfields. All westbound Piccadilly line trains should continue to Heathrow. It is also time to start running a service on the rail line that is part of national rail, oyster and the zonal system. People like me have no choice but to use the tube.

A more radical idea would be to run the full Piccadilly Line service to Heathrow and have an Action Town to Rayners Lane shuttle but you'll never please everyone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Given the shortage of Piccadilly line trains what other Piccadilly services would you cut instead?

Bring the Wood Green reversing stub back into use and make more use of Arnos Grove, every train doesn't need to go to Cockfosters.

 

[D365]

A more radical idea would be to run the full Piccadilly Line service to Heathrow and have an Action Town to Rayners Lane shuttle but you'll never please everyone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bring the Wood Green reversing stub back into use and make more use of Arnos Grove, every train doesn't need to go to Cockfosters.

Who would pay for these changes? HAA and TfL aren't exactly best buds at the moment

 

[hwl]

Perhaps the trains are returning to Piccadilly Line depot just beyond Northfields. They could continue to Heathrow and then return to Northfields but then that would seem crazy from Heathrow.

There aren't enough trains to extend all services from Northfields to Heathrow hence the turnback at Northfields for them to headback to central London. If you extend all the trains to Heathrow the TPH on the whole line would have to be reduced instead.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Who would pay for these changes? HAA and TfL aren't exactly best buds at the moment

add DfT Rail and ORR to the list of Heathrow's not best buddies list!

 

[HSTEd]

So this turnback will stop when NTfL happens - if it ever does?

 

[hwl]

So this turnback will stop when NTfL happens - if it ever does?

That was the plan the last time I enquired...