GTR tell passengers to tweet the RMT their disgust

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Who will be the real sufferers on the strike days...will it be those who were once described on this website as being "collateral damage"?

 

[EM2]

Who knows what happens after 2021 - not GTR as they might not have the franchise. Why make their passengers suffer in the meantime? Really this suggests that the action is against government policy, for which the ballot box is designed.

Which is why staff are not happy to accept a contract which, amongst other things, doesn't guarantee their jobs after that time. Would you?

 

[ComUtoR]

Who will be the real sufferers on the strike days...will it be those who were once described on this website as being "collateral damage"?

Considering you yourself highlighted there is a significant financial penalty and various others have highlighted that their jobs are on the line and long term employment looks bleak. Being screwed over by your employer and feeling forced to leave to another company etc. etc.

I think I know those who are suffering.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Considering you yourself highlighted there is a significant financial penalty and various others have highlighted that their jobs are on the line and long term employment looks bleak. Being screwed over by your employer and feeling forced to leave to another company etc. etc.

I think I know those who are suffering.

Well then, I am sure that all those once described as "collateral damage" will be utterly heartened by what you say and attempt to use any mode of travel in order that they can go to and from work in the full knowledge that they are both the rock and the hard place in a dispute in which they are not directly involved.

 

[Richard_B]

Sums up the whole franchise really: they tried, and they failed.

 

[Antman]

But, if Southern had a full compliment of staff, spares and holiday relief - it would reduce the risk of cancellations dramatically, wouldn't it?

Look at the tweet's to Southern - that doesn't give the impression that most people are against the union at all.

Yes, Southern are basically only doing what the government want them to but, they've handled thing in probably the worse way they could. Trying to turn passengers against its own staff, the very people charged with their passengers safety.

It's no wonder passengers and staff are of common though towards Southern - A bad workman blames his tools applies to management as well!

I think most passengers have no love for either party, they just want the dispute resolved.

Anyway not much point in having two threads running on the same subject.

 

[ChathillMan]

Whoever sanctioned that, must surely go.

I feel for the normal Twitter folk there who having to deal with the fallout from customers of this on top of Network Rail fallings and the TOC unable to run the number of trains they used to.

Of course the person that thought this wouldn't have thought of that.

I used to have some sort of respect for Southern (how it was) it has now proven to be a sham.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

 

[northwichcat]

The RMT have Twitter? I would thought Twitter is too 21st Century for the RMT.

This is what I thought the RMT office would be like:

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Who will be the real sufferers on the strike days...will it be those who were once described on this website as being "collateral damage"?

Considering you yourself highlighted there is a significant financial penalty and various others have highlighted that their jobs are on the line and long term employment looks bleak. Being screwed over by your employer and feeling forced to leave to another company etc. etc.

I think I know those who are suffering.

It was reported in the DOO thread that the RMT rejected a deal which would keep all Southern guards in employment until the end of the franchise without any pay cuts because it included handing the control of the doors to the drivers and no guarantee of anything beyond the end of the franchise.

Therefore due to a union rejecting a deal and calling for industrial action because they think their members might be out-of-work in 2021-2023, other employees face an immediate sack without financial compensation (not compensated redundancy) because they rely on using Southern services to get to and from work.

So who are the real victims of all this? The people who contribute to paying the Southern employee's wages!

 

[Tio Terry]

Which is why staff are not happy to accept a contract which, amongst other things, doesn't guarantee their jobs after that time. Would you?

I'm no expert in Employment law so don't shot me down but doesn't TUPE law mean that if one franchise loses its role the successor has to take on the existing staff?

 

[nottsnurse]

...other employees face an immediate sack without financial compensation (not compensated redundancy) because they rely on using Southern services to get to and from work.

So who are the real victims of all this? The people who contribute to paying the Southern employee's wages!

Perhaps if those in the wider workforce hadn't been so quick to turn their backs on union representation then everyone would have better job protection...

It's not a race to the bottom, but ignorance and apathy towards unionism is helping the government make it one.

 

[Robertj21a]

Perhaps if those in the wider workforce hadn't been so quick to turn their backs on union representation then everyone would have better job protection...

It's not a race to the bottom, but ignorance and apathy towards unionism is helping the government make it one.

If you look back at how Unions have treated the general public, over very many years, it may give a better understanding of the whole picture.

 

[EM2]

I'm no expert in Employment law so don't shot me down but doesn't TUPE law mean that if one franchise loses its role the successor has to take on the existing staff?

Yes, but that would be on the new contracts that they'd signed, which as Southern's ad says, are only guaranteeing jobs until 2021. No-one knows after that.
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If you look back at how Unions have treated the general public, over very many years, it may give a better understanding of the whole picture.

And what about those privileges that unions have won that pretty much all employed people now take for granted? Rest days, holidays, shorter working week just for starters.

 

[Railsigns]

So who are the real victims of all this? The people who contribute to paying the Southern employee's wages!

Southern only has one employee? Well, that explains a lot.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Christ, someone's job is ONLY Secure until 2021, I mean, that's only a few weeks away isn't it?

 

[Chrisgr31]

Who will be the real sufferers on the strike days...will it be those who were once described on this website as being "collateral damage"?

As one of those that is "collateral damage" there is a distinct advantage on strike days and that is that I know there will be no service on my line so can plan accordingly!

On other days I need to check before travelling whether the service I want to catch is actually running, and then whether it is comprised of the number of carriages it is meant to be. If either of these is no I then need to consider whether I need to catch a different train. If of course I actually need to get somewhere at a specific time I need to catch at least one train earlier, check
its actually running, and go to the station. Once there I might find its now cancelled, late or short.

Our service had been fairly immune to cancellations for staff shortages, but we had lots of short forms or cancellations for stock issues. We now have all three.
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Perhaps if those in the wider workforce hadn't been so quick to turn their backs on union representation then everyone would have better job protection...

It's not a race to the bottom, but ignorance and apathy towards unionism is helping the government make it one.

I would not be surprised if passengers are seeing redundancies in their own employer, seeing people having to work harder for no more reward, having benefits cut etc and actually believe that cuts have gone far enough. They are irritated or fed up by whats happening at their own work and are actually marginally impressed by the fact that Guards are standing up for their rights. Doesn't make them happy with the situation, just not as annoyed as they would have been 10 years ago

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm no expert in Employment law so don't shot me down but doesn't TUPE law mean that if one franchise loses its role the successor has to take on the existing staff?

Yes but not forever.

 

[bnm]

Look at the tweet's to Southern - that doesn't give the impression that most people are against the union at all.

Self selection bias. Statistically meaningless.

 

[Greenback]

Yes but not forever.

That's an important point. Just as the original company could dismiss staff, make them redundant, and so on. The TUPE rules mean that there is continuity, but it is naturally limited

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Christ, someone's job is ONLY Secure until 2021, I mean, that's only a few weeks away isn't it?

What calendar of weeks in a year do you normally adhere to...:roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps if those in the wider workforce hadn't been so quick to turn their backs on union representation then everyone would have better job protection...

It's not a race to the bottom, but ignorance and apathy towards unionism is helping the government make it one.

Perhaps at my age, I remember the years leading up to "the winter of discontent" as one reason why your stated terminology of "ignorance and apathy towards unionism" could be matched by my phrase of "sow and ye shall reap".

 

[F Great Eastern]

Sarcasm my friend

 

[jon0844]

The RMT have been loving things today, re-tweeting lots of comments and making jokes.

A common theme is people saying they want Southern out and British Rail back in. I guess it wasn't even worth trying to reply to anyone to point out that British Rail started DOO and it's the DfT doing it now. With any more management contracts, you can pretty much be sure that all remaining trains with guards will go the same way.

An awful lot of people are of course not on Twitter and there's always an assumption that it's bigger than it really is. Partly because it's so well used by people in media and PR, so of course everyone must be.

I am not sure either side will win or lose from this. By tomorrow, everyone will have forgotten and just be moaning about cancelled trains as usual - not really caring who is at fault.

I wonder if Jeremy and his activists should hop on board?

 

[cjmillsnun]

What calendar of weeks in a year do you normally adhere to...:roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Perhaps at my age, I remember the years leading up to "the winter of discontent" as one reason why your stated terminology of "ignorance and apathy towards unionism" could be matched by my phrase of "sow and ye shall reap".

Perhaps you should remember that the person who said that was not rail staff or a member of the RMT.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps you should remember that the person who said that was not rail staff or a member of the RMT.

Whoever said it is immaterial, it is what was said that is the relevant point.

 

[Antman]

Whoever sanctioned that, must surely go.

I feel for the normal Twitter folk there who having to deal with the fallout from customers of this on top of Network Rail fallings and the TOC unable to run the number of trains they used to.

Of course the person that thought this wouldn't have thought of that.

I used to have some sort of respect for Southern (how it was) it has now proven to be a sham.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

I've seen the ad and I really don't see what the big deal is quite honestly?

Whether people agree with it or not is up to them.

 

[bb21]

I am not sure either side will win or lose from this. By tomorrow, everyone will have forgotten and just be moaning about cancelled trains as usual - not really caring who is at fault.

Everyone is a loser in this dispute.

DfT had their hands burnt in an unexpected manner, and that gob****e Wilkinson did not help matters either. (Only if he could have kept his trap shut. I would have been furious if he were one of mine.) GTR through their bully boy tactics showed how utterly naive the current crop heading the franchise/management contract are. RMT did not exactly make many friends through their hyperbole and eventual ineffectiveness, not totally surprising, at the end. The customers, well, the customers are always the biggest losers in such disputes, and not just Southern customers. Both Thameslink and Great Northern are seeing much higher levels of cancellation than normal nowadays. Who can be confident that they are not related?

In order of severity, I would probably say customers > staff > RMT > GTR > government.

Would the damage caused by this long-running dispute be offset by the potential financial gains in the future, assuming a bruised victory? The government will probably claim so, but in actual fact, who knows?

 

[Fincra5]

I fail to see, personally, how they can continue to provide the same service to passengers with disabilities (as the ad claims), when there is no longer a guaranteed member of staff onboard and no station staff.

People outside the old BR DOO routes of BML and TLK have always been able to turn up to the train, (and providing they can be accommodated) board the train - with assistance- and travel like everyone else. Sorry but thats a complete backwards step against DDA (etc)

To me the whole Ad and so on reeks of pure desperation.

 

[jon0844]

In DOO land, and with stations staffed all day and night, there are people on the platform to assist with ramps. But it does mean asking for help and telling people where you're going to get off.

There are many wheelchair users on my line and there have never been guards in all my years of travelling.

It's rather more a problem at unmanned stations.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I'm no expert in Employment law so don't shot me down but doesn't TUPE law mean that if one franchise loses its role the successor has to take on the existing staff?

Yes but not forever.

That's an important point. Just as the original company could dismiss staff, make them redundant, and so on. The TUPE rules mean that there is continuity, but it is naturally limited

Erm.... Not all Northern Rail staff transferred to Arriva Rail North (despite what management claim). I believe that if a role is no longer required within 90 days of the transfer of contract, the employee must be told, before the change of company, with at least the minimum employment notice given.

As it happens, the person who no longer works for the franchise, and their colleagues, discovered their job was going thanks to an advert, by Carillion, for call centre staff for their new "Arriva Rail North contract".

The other members of Customer Relations team were offered, and accepted, other jobs.

 

[Andyh82]

Which is why staff are not happy to accept a contract which, amongst other things, doesn't guarantee their jobs after that time. Would you?

To be fair, most people's employment contracts are only guaranteed as long as what ever their notice period is. You could start a job today and be made redundant tomorrow.

 

[Robertj21a]

I am not sure either side will win or lose from this. By tomorrow, everyone will have forgotten and just be moaning about cancelled trains as usual - not really caring who is at fault.

I would have thought it quite obvious that the DfT has won.