What's the plan? Reworked Birmingham New Street

[XCTurbostar]

Just thought I should mention that Platform 13 appears to be gathering some pace now that Platform 12 is closed for upgrade works.

See image here;
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/starlifestudios/23171795522/

Thanks,
Ross

 

[The Planner]

East Dock, it isnt a platform.

 

[nottinghamcity]

East Dock, it isnt a platform.

I was surprised to see it being reinstated. I can't remember seeing anything in there for years. Maybe it could be reconstructed to accommodate a 2 car 170. Not sure how long it is though.

 

[XCTurbostar]

The Sectional Appendix will tell you how how long it is.

A feasibility study for Platform 13 was mentioned in Route 17 Network Rail Route Strategy of 2008 or before. Since then it has been referred to as a new entrance to Platform 12.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[40907]

Transited through New Street yesterday, and because my incoming train was late I missed my connection to the north and so had time to have a look round. What does strike you is the amount of space in the new concourse area, so plenty of room without getting crowded. Very light and airy. The toilets are now free to use by the way!

While I waited for my next train I was reflecting on the Indian Railways phrase "super dense crush load" which no-doubt you have heard used on the TV series about Indian Railways. Well maybe we don't qualify, because our trains don't run with the doors open, and hangers-on! However my 2-car train from Hereford almost qualified. Full leaving Great Malvern, only to find 80 to 100 passengers waiting at Worcester Foregate St. Long delay while the guard tried to get everyone on board. Packed isles, vestibules, the lot. Yet more delay as we shoe-horned more passengers on at Droitwich and Bromsgrove. I began to wonder if we would get up the Lickey!
Anway as we crawled into New Street 30 minutes late, the guard did apologise for the "serious overcrowding". My words would be "dangerous overcrowding" to be frank. E-mail to London Midland and my MP in progress.

40907

 

[trainophile]

There was something about this (the HFD-BHM overcrowding) on Twitter today, not sure who was commenting but there was a promise that things would improve.

I went the same route this morning at 0709 ex-HFD, and there were people standing by Worcester.even though it was a 4-car train. We didn't stop at Bromsgrove, probably just as well.

 

[40907]

Transited through New Street last week and noticed an announcement on the platform train indicator that the Navigation St footbridge was closing on 17th January "until further notice".
I wonder if this for updating work. Hopefully it will not be out of action for too long, it is a useful route for a quick platform change.

Incidentally when I went up into the new concourse to grab a coffee, I was surprised how cold it was in that circulating area. I didn't see any obvious heating arrangements. Maybe it is just too big an area to heat.


40907

 

[trainophile]

Transited through New Street last week and noticed an announcement on the platform train indicator that the Navigation St footbridge was closing on 17th January "until further notice".
I wonder if this for updating work. Hopefully it will not be out of action for too long, it is a useful route for a quick platform change.

Incidentally when I went up into the new concourse to grab a coffee, I was surprised how cold it was in that circulating area. I didn't see any obvious heating arrangements. Maybe it is just too big an area to heat.


40907

Nothing to keep the cold air out from the open ends I suppose. And with that huge domed ceiling, any warm air will rise up there rather than remain at ground level.

 

[WesternS]

Nothing to keep the cold air out from the open ends I suppose. And with that huge domed ceiling, any warm air will rise up there rather than remain at ground level.

From using the place over the past couple of weeks, it might also be something to do with the 'automatic' doors on the entrace/exit to/from the concourse to Smallbrook Queensway being semi-permanently open (not sure whether deliberately or broken). A more than fair breeze came through those, and not something you can see from the other side of the concourse or up above at the shopping level.

However, it does seem that the escalators are working - or at least those on the patlforms I've used.....

 

[Class172]

While I waited for my next train I was reflecting on the Indian Railways phrase "super dense crush load" which no-doubt you have heard used on the TV series about Indian Railways. Well maybe we don't qualify, because our trains don't run with the doors open, and hangers-on! However my 2-car train from Hereford almost qualified. Full leaving Great Malvern, only to find 80 to 100 passengers waiting at Worcester Foregate St. Long delay while the guard tried to get everyone on board. Packed isles, vestibules, the lot. Yet more delay as we shoe-horned more passengers on at Droitwich and Bromsgrove. I began to wonder if we would get up the Lickey!
Anway as we crawled into New Street 30 minutes late, the guard did apologise for the "serious overcrowding". My words would be "dangerous overcrowding" to be frank. E-mail to London Midland and my MP in progress.

40907

There was something about this (the HFD-BHM overcrowding) on Twitter today, not sure who was commenting but there was a promise that things would improve.

I went the same route this morning at 0709 ex-HFD, and there were people standing by Worcester.even though it was a 4-car train. We didn't stop at Bromsgrove, probably just as well.

I cannot remember how busy services were around 10 years ago, but I certainly feel that passenger numbers on the line have been increasing markedly over the past five years. The overcrowding issues appear to be becoming more frequent; not just peak services but daytime ones also.

Before Christmas I was travelling to my relatives which entailed getting the 1033 train from Droitwich to New St. I am used to seeing overcrowded services on the line now, but least to say I was aghast when my intended train arrived on that day. Upon arrival every seat was taken, the aisles and vestibules were already filled with people, and I find myself amongst 30 other people trying to board. Departure was hence delayed by a few mins. I managed to squeeze myself into the end portion of the train and claimed the little territory I could. At Bromsgrove the situation could only get worse as we spent at least 5 mins trying to get every passenger on board - I felt sorry for the lady who ended up with my suitcase in her lap for the rest of the journey since space was such a premium. The intense crowding then caused another problem... the heat. On the day itself it was around freezing outside, however with no space to take off my coat, I was cooking and felt very faint for what felt like an eternity - the train was very slow up the Lickey Incline.

I rarely come to the conclusion that I've have a truly awful journey, but that had to qualify as the worst I have ever experienced. I have no idea how many people were on the train in the end - the conductor kept apologising for the situation, but you could tell in his tone of voice that he was rather p**sed off. Upon arrival at New St., I saw a throng of passengers make their way to the conductor to presumably vent their anger. I was so glad to have a 1st class adv for my next leg of the journey!

Given the current lack of DMUs, I can't see anything improving for a good while - I'd love to know what LM are supposedly planning to 'alleviate the situation.' Preferably, most trains need at least 4 carriages - I'm sure there would be little fuss from passengers if they had to dump in some hired-in train simply to get capacity, but that won't happen.

 

[edwin_m]

The extension of Cross-City to Bromsgrove will give that station an alternative to using the Worcester trains.

 

[Class172]

The extension of Cross-City to Bromsgrove will give that station an alternative to using the Worcester trains.

I'm fully aware of this given that I regularly travel through the station, rather my thoughts are for the line in general, given that Bromsgrove is only one station on the line.

 

[40907]

Reference the ex-Hereford trains being overcrowded,-( as Class 172 mentions above)- certainly from Worcester onwards, I asked my MP to talk to LM about the situation, and the answer he got was "shortage of stock", which is basically what they tell me. Not, "what are doing about the shortage of stock". They said to me recently many TOCs are short of stock, which I suppose we know about anyway. Perhaps it is a fault of the franchise system, or indeed dare I say it, privatisation.

And yet, making my way to Kidderminster a few weeks ago, changing at Worcester Shrub Hill, off a very overcrowded Hereford-New St train, a six-car LM train arrived from Leamington with at best a dozen people on board. The unit split, and the three car train bound for Whitlock's End had just a handful of passengers on board, at least as far as Kidderminster.

I am beginning to think that for some reason LM just "don't like" running the Hereford service! In the short term the answer would appear to be more services starting at Worcester going via Bromsgrove and University, but I don't suppose they have the stock.....

By the way, anyone know the reason for the closure of the Navigation Street footbridge?

40907

 

[sprinterguy]

And yet, making my way to Kidderminster a few weeks ago, changing at Worcester Shrub Hill, off a very overcrowded Hereford-New St train, a six-car LM train arrived from Leamington with at best a dozen people on board. The unit split, and the three car train bound for Whitlock's End had just a handful of passengers on board, at least as far as Kidderminster.

Worcester - Kidderminster (and specifically Droitwich - Kiddy) must be one of the most lightly loaded sections of the network of routes collectively known as the Snow Hill lines. Just because the train was quiet over that section isn't to say that six carriages weren't required through the much busier core section immediately surrounding Birmingham Moor Street/Snow Hill.

There's nothing to stop anyone using the Snow Hill line trains going the long way round between Worcester and Birmingham if they wanted to, but the difference in journey time naturally focuses passengers onto the trains via Bromsgrove, and there's nothing to say that they won't find the train just as crowded once it reaches the urban Black Country and Birmingham.

Reference the ex-Hereford trains being overcrowded,-( as Class 172 mentions above)- certainly from Worcester onwards, I asked my MP to talk to LM about the situation, and the answer he got was "shortage of stock", which is basically what they tell me. Not, "what are doing about the shortage of stock". They said to me recently many TOCs are short of stock, which I suppose we know about anyway. Perhaps it is a fault of the franchise system, or indeed dare I say it, privatisation.

There was some pub chatter amongst the railway fraternity over a year ago regarding London Midland introducing some loco-hauled workings on the New Street - Hereford service to alleviate overcrowding. Unfortunately these rumours seem to have come to nought.

 

[The Planner]

By the way, anyone know the reason for the closure of the Navigation Street footbridge?

40907

Re-furb and ticket barriers so I hear.

 

[moggie]

As a regular on the Worcester / New St via Bromsgrove for 30 years (well somewhat less as there were no scheduled trains via Bromsgrove when I first started using them back in the mid 80's) if I recall I can only second the view of the recent (< 5 years) overcrowding on these services in the OFF Peak. Of course the peak hour trains have always suffered in this respect but many services are strengthened, but not all.

Peak hour services are too infrequent and should be improved in this respect from at least Great Malvern and Worcester. Off peak however are a nightmare and as has been pointed out, LM's attitude (currently) is to sit on their hands and plead hopelessness based on there being no spare rolling stock. I find this hard to understand when they are able to find it for the peak hours and Tyesely sidings are well stocked off peak.

However, it seems some things are changing. The other evening when we had a 150 / 172 combination (2 x 2 car) via Bromsgrove on the 17:49 ex New St. A first in my experience. The apparent inability of a midweek class 172 out of New St finally solved.

All we need now is for the new West Mids franchise in 2018 to address this problem for good. Take the opportunity now to comment on the current DfT West Mids rail franchise consultation and get your view in. The more, the better. It's high time that rather than just dump thousands of new houses onto Worcestershire, national politicians were also forced to make provision to address the abysmal rail provision we suffer at present.

http://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/west-midlands-franchise/

 

[fandroid]

I arrived at Birmingham New Street on Tuesday from International wishing to change to the City Line for University. We arrived in a low number platform. In my experience, all trains heading to University go from high numbered platforms. Having gone up the escalators from the A (London) end of the platform, I saw that there were glass barriers stopping me getting to my desired departure platform. I had to go through a ticket gate and then back in again for this routine change. The bizarre thing is that if you go up from the B end of the platforms, you are free to go to any other platform without getting your ticket out.

Does anyone know why this inconvenient and time wasting situation is there? (Job creation scheme for LM barrier staff?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because of the layout of the station being at 90 degrees to the main entrance, basically. Not having the split would have meant a longer walk round or a totally separate entrance as before.

 

[fandroid]

Can anyone provide a link which shows the layout at concourse level, including where the gatelines are?

I tried looking at the previous forum discussion but life is too short to wade through that lot to find the relevant info.

 

[bengley]

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/birmingham-new-street-station-map.pdf

 

[edwin_m]

Can anyone provide a link which shows the layout at concourse level, including where the gatelines are?

I tried looking at the previous forum discussion but life is too short to wade through that lot to find the relevant info.

Thought I'd check the station map on National Rail Enquiries, but this still shows the main concourse as being due to open in 2015! For such a high-profile project at a major station this lack of current information is not far short of a disgrace.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really, they could do with having clear signs on the platforms saying that interchanging passengers should use the B end (if they haven't already). Some will ignore them of course, but it would help.

 

[AndyW33]

Really, they could do with having clear signs on the platforms saying that interchanging passengers should use the B end (if they haven't already). Some will ignore them of course, but it would help.

There are signs on the platforms, but they aren't particularly prominent, nor is it all that clear which direction the B end is in if the train you arrive on is long enough to use the full length of the platform. I know which way to go, but I've been using New Street regularly since the days before it became a concrete cavern. People who have never been there before, or not since the most recent set of changes, do seem to appear up the A-end stairs and wander confusedly round the concourse trying to find the way to the "other" platforms. It's a nice bit of historical reinstatement -we now have the separate LNW and Midland sides back again at the "A" end.

 

[fandroid]

They could put better signage in but don't forget how narrow the platforms are. They don't really want too many passengers trying to push through against crowds going the other way. New Street was doomed back in the 60s when they crammed so many tracks into what was presumably the existing width of the station. Brum' s inadequate station situation is doomed to continue. There will be no new City Line tunnel as long as HS2 is looming, and once that is there with its promise of relief of New Street, the connectivity between long distance services and local ones will fall apart.

Ho Hum. What we suffer as a result of decisions taken so long ago!

 

[The Planner]

The chances of the Cross City tunnels would be virtually nil even without HS2.

 

[HowardGWR]

You could block up all the ways down to the platforms and build an expanded Curzon St that would incorporate the New St facilities and HS2 ones and join to Moor St.

Present station wasted? No not really. Just turn the concourse into more shopping - job done.

 

[MKB]

I've only had to interchange in Birmingham three times since the new station opened, but each time has been very stressful.

Each time, my inbound service has been running late, giving me only a few minutes' connecting time. Each time, I've arrived at the "A" end of the platforms. There were hordes of people on the platform, so getting up to the concourse level has taken two or three minutes.

I've tried running down to the "B" end to change platforms, and I've tried going through the two sets of ticket barriers at the "A" end. There's not much in it; both options add on extra time.

A change of platform that used to take no more than two minutes is now taking five typically.

Whoever decided to run a shopping mall right through the middle of a station concourse is frankly an idiot.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Whoever decided to run a shopping mall right through the middle of a station concourse is frankly an idiot.

Maybe, but I'll bet they are an extremely rich idiot.

 

[sprinterguy]

Whoever decided to run a shopping mall right through the middle of a station concourse is frankly an idiot.

Given the floor area the number of retail premises at concourse level doesn't seem excessive to me.

As mentioned further up, the awkward split of ticket barriers at the "A" end is more to do with retaining an entrance from Smallbrook Queensway. It's far from an ideal layout, granted.

 

[Cletus]

Just seen this on twitter, not sure if it's been posted before?