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Chinese people holding racially prejudiced views

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Butts

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This might sound racist but personally I prefer to live in an area that is predominantly white. Having lived in England,Scotland and Wales I have been exposed to almost "Aryan" areas of the UK and ethnically diverse ones.

I feel more comfrotable in the former rather than the latter.

With regards to the Chinese I was coming back to Edinburgh today from Luxembourg and happened upon a free Daily Mirror courtesy of British Airways.
There on the front cover was an article about Dogs being boiled alive in vats of water for human consumption in rural parts of China <D
 
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theageofthetra

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God this is boring. If you are really bothered about racism and bigotry I would suggest you travel to Africa or Asia and see the horrific intertribal/religious/homophobic/disability or caste bigotry and violence which occurs on a daily basis but is rarely reported in our controlled media.
 

TheKnightWho

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God this is boring. If you are really bothered about racism and bigotry I would suggest you travel to Africa or Asia and see the horrific intertribal/religious/homophobic/disability or caste bigotry and violence which occurs on a daily basis but is rarely reported in our controlled media.

Good to care about racism, just so long as it might not cast aspersions on anyone we might know, right? ;)
 

fowler9

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Most of the people who have messed my life up have been white. I include myself in that. The only exceptions where ones involved in an aggravated burglary in Bradford I was a victim of who were Pakistani or Bangladeshi who made up the general poor population in that part of Bradford. If it had happened in Liverpool it would have been white scallies.
 

AlterEgo

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1) A lot of people are racist without realising they are. That doesn't make it a crime - but it should make you look at yourself if you're called out on it.

2) The conclusive evidence is that Phil agreed with the statement that people should avoid areas with black people and Pakistanis. Avoiding people because they're black or Pakistani is racist, because it's discriminating against them based on their race.

3) It was daft... but it was still racist. I'm not saying that Phil is a monster, or that he regularly goes around being a huge racist, or that he believes in his heart of hearts that black people are inferior etc. I said that that statement was one of the most racist things I have seen on this forum recently.

It is very obvious you have a major problem with racism ever being called out. I would advise you to have a serious think about why that is, because I don't want to jump to conclusions but ignoring racism (as I have pointed out and you have ignored twice) but being outraged by someone saying that a statement is racist is a rather odd position for you to hold when it is pretty conclusively racist. As I have explained numerous times yet you have come back with nothing more than "no it isn't" and tried to imply I was casting aspersions on everything that Phil believes. Your strawman isn't relevant here: the fact is that that statement in particular was racist, and you have provided nothing to show that it isn't.

You must be having a laugh if you think I'm going to apologise for not tolerating racism. What is this? 1950?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It doesn't matter if they're insulted. The point is that it's a statement about the character of what they said, and not something said purely to offend or to make them upset. Perhaps next time you see an accusation of racism you could ask yourself why they're saying that, and not cast aspersions on their rationality or make out like they're too young to know the implications of what they're saying (and don't pretend that that isn't what you implied).


If you're a student I'm really not much older than you. If you feel like I was implying you were too young to understand, perhaps that's a little more on you than me.

There is no straw man here. We can continue to disagree about whether a particular poster is a racist or not. I accepted from the beginning you were not trying to upset that poster, but I felt it was poor form, detracted from the debate, and quite uncalled for. If a single badly worded post on an Internet forum makes you do that than you should rein in your instincts - it's what a lot of us would immediately feel, but sometimes it's worth thinking before you post.

Again, you revert to suggesting that if someone shouts "racist" my first concern should be that the person might be a racist, and not the consequences of someone shouting "racist". I am quite concerned about the consequences. I do not feel like I need an education about racism or prejudice in general.

We've paid dearly for using the racist card over the years. I have used it a lot. The Brexit scenario was a wake up call. People like you and me got our butts kicked in that referendum. And why? Immigration! Of course when I see Farage stand up on stage I think "you bloody racist xenophobe". But the more the Remainers accused the Leavers of racism/xenophobia/stupidity the stronger and more resolute they got. It made the Remainers look hysterical and undermined the campaign. It is not at all helpful to adopt the tactics you rely on.

You will not win against the remaining people who are racist by using shrill voices and talking about academic principles. The feminist lobby (if I might use such a cumbersome term) has managed to ensure that most men are by default feminists too. The remaining mysoginists only switch their ears off if they hear terms like "intersectional feminism", "cis", and so on. The same principle applies to racists. Calling out racism and saying "you are a racist" does not win the debate. It does not convert racists to beacons of the civil rights struggle overnight. It just turns the people you're trying to reach off.
 

TheKnightWho

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If you're a student I'm really not much older than you. If you feel like I was implying you were too young to understand, perhaps that's a little more on you than me.

There is no straw man here. We can continue to disagree about whether a particular poster is a racist or not. I accepted from the beginning you were not trying to upset that poster, but I felt it was poor form, detracted from the debate, and quite uncalled for. If a single badly worded post on an Internet forum makes you do that than you should rein in your instincts - it's what a lot of us would immediately feel, but sometimes it's worth thinking before you post.

Again, you revert to suggesting that if someone shouts "racist" my first concern should be that the person might be a racist, and not the consequences of someone shouting "racist". I am quite concerned about the consequences. I do not feel like I need an education about racism or prejudice in general.

We've paid dearly for using the racist card over the years. I have used it a lot. The Brexit scenario was a wake up call. People like you and me got our butts kicked in that referendum. And why? Immigration! Of course when I see Farage stand up on stage I think "you bloody racist xenophobe". But the more the Remainers accused the Leavers of racism/xenophobia/stupidity the stronger and more resolute they got. It made the Remainers look hysterical and undermined the campaign. It is not at all helpful to adopt the tactics you rely on.

You will not win against the remaining people who are racist by using shrill voices and talking about academic principles. The feminist lobby (if I might use such a cumbersome term) has managed to ensure that most men are by default feminists too. The remaining mysoginists only switch their ears off if they hear terms like "intersectional feminism", "cis", and so on. The same principle applies to racists. Calling out racism and saying "you are a racist" does not win the debate. It does not convert racists to beacons of the civil rights struggle overnight. It just turns the people you're trying to reach off.

You have interpreted my statements as "Phil is a giant racist". I said no such thing. I said that that particular post was racist.

And if you think you can guilt me into not saying that things are racist when they are by talking about Brexit you can think again! It's not about winning an argument - it's quite conclusively racist, and you have yet again provided no argument that it isn't. All of your waffle surrounding your post doesn't change that fact.
 

AlterEgo

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Well what are you saying then? Are you suggesting that the post is racist but the poster isn't?


Also, calling someone racist (with justification) is not as bad as being racist.

There is quite a difference. Almost every adult will have had a racist thought, made a racial faux pas, or perhaps harboured a racist prejudice. That does not make that person a racist.

You'd have to accept that everyone was a racist if that was the case. It is a spectrum. Some people are nailed on racists. Others are just misguided, inarticulate, or ignorant.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You have interpreted my statements as "Phil is a giant racist". I said no such thing. I said that that particular post was racist.

And if you think you can guilt me into not saying that things are racist when they are by talking about Brexit you can think again! It's not about winning an argument - it's quite conclusively racist, and you have yet again provided no argument that it isn't. All of your waffle surrounding your post doesn't change that fact.

Sorry, no, you implied quite clearly that Phil was a racist. Here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2699922&postcount=22

Not a "giant racist" - don't get hysterical!

And don't ignore the rest of my post either unless you're unable to argue against it. I am not trying to guilt you, anyone can see I am clearly illustrating the absolute flaw in bringing out the racist card very early on. It undermines, fatally, the whole argument. It is not waffle and I maintain it is relevant.
 
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fowler9

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I think most people are not racist, or if they are they are ill informed. It is a casual racism that does need stamping out. Someone is no more likely to to hold any ill will towards you because they are from South America, the far east etc. etc. Christ, European nations have a hell of a reputation when it comes to people to be feared.
 

Harbornite

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There is quite a difference. Almost every adult will have had a racist thought, made a racial faux pas, or perhaps harboured a racist prejudice. That does not make that person a racist.

You'd have to accept that everyone was a racist if that was the case. It is a spectrum. Some people are nailed on racists. Others are just misguided, inarticulate, or ignorant.

I agree with this. However, Phil did infer that he has become racist over time.
 

TheKnightWho

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Sorry, no, you implied quite clearly that Phil was a racist. Here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2699922&postcount=22

Yet he also said that it was a sentiment that we would grow to have in the post that that was replying to, which would be a tacit admission that it is a sentiment that he actually holds. If that's the case then it would actually make him racist, and it's not just a silly remark as you've continually tried to say it was.

You can't have it both ways.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And don't ignore the rest of my post either unless you're unable to argue against it. I am not trying to guilt you, anyone can see I am clearly illustrating the absolute flaw in bringing out the racist card very early on. It undermines, fatally, the whole argument.

I didn't reply to it because it wasn't relevant, and because I have addressed the issue with it previously: specifically when talking about tone-policing and asking you how we should combat racism. Something you said you didn't know the answer to.

Frankly, if you think calling out explicit racism is the "racist card" I must question what you yourself would consider racist! It's classic tone-policing that conveniently never provides an actual solution: it's just that whatever I'm doing now is apparently wrong.
 
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J-2739

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I think most people are not racist, or if they are they are ill informed. It is a casual racism that does need stamping out. Someone is no more likely to to hold any ill will towards you because they are from South America, the far east etc. etc. Christ, European nations have a hell of a reputation when it comes to people to be feared.

It's probably down to history also.
 

fowler9

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It's probably down to history also.

Well yeah a lot of racism is down to history. Racism is basically pathetic. You couldn't even predict what I am going to do based on my Mum, my Dad, my two brothers or my sister. Let alone my family tree which goes back through England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and France just in the last few hundred years. One of my cousins spent a decade in Africa and lives in Chile with her son who is mixed race to a father who was black.
 
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theageofthetra

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Good to care about racism, just so long as it might not cast aspersions on anyone we might know, right? ;)

I came on here to offer my experience of China and its people but as I suspected you have no rational argument or debate to offer other than to insult and display the sort of brainwashed orchestrated communual wailing to be found at a North Korean state funeral.
 

AlterEgo

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Yet he also said that it was a sentiment that we would grow to have in the post that that was replying to, which would be a tacit admission that it is a sentiment that he actually holds. If that's the case then it would actually make him racist, and it's not just a silly remark as you've continually tried to say it was.

You can't have it both ways.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I didn't reply to it because it wasn't relevant, and because I have addressed the issue with it previously: specifically when talking about tone-policing and asking you how we should combat racism. Something you said you didn't know the answer to.

Frankly, if you think calling out explicit racism is the "racist card" I must question what you yourself would consider racist! It's classic tone-policing that conveniently never provides an actual solution: it's just that whatever I'm doing now is apparently wrong.

Honestly? I do not know how to combat racism. I personally am not a victim of it. I do not knowingly perpetrate it. I don't expect a thread on a train forum to provide a workable solution to the problem of racism - the forum can't even agree on how to simplify tickets. I rather expect you don't know how to effectively combat racism either. What we can agree on is that racism is unacceptable (however you choose to define it), that the world would be more desirable if there was less of it.

What I am fairly sure of is that you won't stop racists being racist by calling them racist - it's a slur, they would consider it a slur, they turn off and dismiss you, and really that is what matters when you're dealing with bigots. It is really only this that I am trying to explain.

I do not think that Phil would identify as a racist and I think you have put 2 and 2 together to make 5.

I'm aware that I probably give the impression that I'm taking you to task somewhat. It's not personal - I reply to your posts because they are usually long form and, unlike many, seem to have some considerable thought put into them. I appreciate this, there is a poor signal to noise ratio on here sometimes.

We likely agree on a lot more than it may first seem, but really I am only trying to convey a fairly narrow point in this thread. I will leave it here as I feel we will probably not come to agreement on this issue, but would rather it was left on a more pleasant note than a back-and-forth circular argument. Cheers.
 

fowler9

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My first proper girlfriend was ethnically Chinese by the way. She was beautiful, Vicky. She was 17, I was 18. I was a metalhead she was just normal. Ha ha. It was great, over half of my life ago. I never met her family as they did not want her going out with a white boy. My dads parents described her as being alright for one of them. Make of it all what you will, I loved her for a while. She wasn't a racist and I wasn't. We split up when I went to Uni and I ended up going out with a Pakistani girl.
 
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TheKnightWho

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Honestly? I do not know how to combat racism. I personally am not a victim of it. I do not knowingly perpetrate it. I don't expect a thread on a train forum to provide a workable solution to the problem of racism - the forum can't even agree on how to simplify tickets. I rather expect you don't know how to effectively combat racism either. What we can agree on is that racism is unacceptable (however you choose to define it), that the world would be more desirable if there was less of it.

What I am fairly sure of is that you won't stop racists being racist by calling them racist - it's a slur, they would consider it a slur, they turn off and dismiss you, and really that is what matters when you're dealing with bigots. It is really only this that I am trying to explain.

I do not think that Phil would identify as a racist and I think you have put 2 and 2 together to make 5.

I'm aware that I probably give the impression that I'm taking you to task somewhat. It's not personal - I reply to your posts because they are usually long form and, unlike many, seem to have some considerable thought put into them. I appreciate this, there is a poor signal to noise ratio on here sometimes.

We likely agree on a lot more than it may first seem, but really I am only trying to convey a fairly narrow point in this thread. I will leave it here as I feel we will probably not come to agreement on this issue, but would rather it was left on a more pleasant note than a back-and-forth circular argument. Cheers.

How many racists do you know that identify as racists? :lol:

The point that I am making is that racism should not be tolerated, and telling me that calling Phil a racist (which I didn't, until he literally admitted it was an attitude that he held!) won't change that isn't really the point. It's something that I thought would make a number of people on here feel uneasy, and frankly I think I'm right in that assessment. Trying to make him out to be some sort of martyr for Brexit or asserting that I'm only doing it for my own gratification as you did a few pages ago is a position I really cannot fathom - what are/were you actually trying to make me do?
 

AlterEgo

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How many racists do you know that identify as racists? :lol:

The point that I am making is that racism should not be tolerated, and telling me that calling Phil a racist (which I didn't, until he literally admitted it was an attitude that he held!) won't change that isn't really the point. It's something that I thought would make a number of people on here feel uneasy, and frankly I think I'm right in that assessment. Trying to make him out to be some sort of martyr for Brexit or asserting that I'm only doing it for my own gratification as you did a few pages ago is a position I really cannot fathom - what are/were you actually trying to make me do?

As you insist on having the last word - so be it.

I was explicit earlier that I would leave my argument at my last post, with the hope of not fostering ill will.
 

Busaholic

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I've been mugged twice in my life, once in London and once in Penzance. My wife also got mugged when we lived in London. In each case the attacker was young, male and white. In only one case was the perpetrator identified and, because of other offences he was found guilty of too, jailed.
 

ralphchadkirk

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I spend quite a lot of my professional life in areas in London mainly populated by people of indian, pakistani and black heritage, on my own and at night. Can't say I've ever felt threatened (apart from the time someone threatened to hit me, but then he was white).
 

richw

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If their case was based on fact is it still fall under racism? If it was proven fact that areas of specific ethnic minority were seeing disproportionately high dangerous crime committed by those minority ethnic groups would it then be acceptable to warn and advise?

In my opinion if there are fact to back these areas being dangerous it is acceptable to warn of this. It is not discriminatory because it is fact proven with statistics.
 

TheKnightWho

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If their case was based on fact is it still fall under racism? If it was proven fact that areas of specific ethnic minority were seeing disproportionately high dangerous crime committed by those minority ethnic groups would it then be acceptable to warn and advise?

In my opinion if there are fact to back these areas being dangerous it is acceptable to warn of this. It is not discriminatory because it is fact proven with statistics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As you insist on having the last word - so be it.

I was explicit earlier that I would leave my argument at my last post, with the hope of not fostering ill will.

Yes definitely, no hard feelings.
 

Phil.

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When Phil said that he would avoid black and Pakistani communities at night but not Indian ones can be interpreted as being racist.

Tricky that. Pakistanis and Indians are the same race both being indigenous to the Indian sub-continent. It's why I get annoyed when people refer to (mostly) Pakistanis as "Asians" as it then implies that they're the same as Chinese, Burmese, Thai and Mongols - who are all from Asia. Incidentally,if ever you go to the U.S. of A. you'll find that Asians there refer to Koreans. Confused? People are.
So, if I distinguish between Indians and Pakistanis I cannot be a racist as they're both the same race. You see (again) how easy it is to become a racist in someone's eyes who doesn't really know but acts on kneejerk reactions.
 
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Gelliant

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This might sound racist but personally I prefer to live in an area that is predominantly white. Having lived in England, Scotland and Wales I have been exposed to almost "Aryan" areas of the UK and ethnically diverse ones.

Seemingly, you're not the only one who prefers to associate with your own kind...

297B001500000578-3131903-image-m-12_1434740498533.jpg
 

RichmondCommu

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. How many times do you read/hear of Indians being arrested for street violence/murder/rape/honour killing? Now compare the other two.

I would suggest that white people are far more likely to be arrested for street violence / murder / rape than Blacks and Pakistanis even taking into account the fact that they are minorities. And just out of interest why specifically would honour killings be a problem for you?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
This might sound racist but personally I prefer to live in an area that is predominantly white. Having lived in England,Scotland and Wales I have been exposed to almost "Aryan" areas of the UK and ethnically diverse ones.

I feel more comfrotable in the former rather than the latter.

Having read many of your posts over the years I'd already gathered this.
 

amateur

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Since this thread is about race. Why do so many blacks and south Asians,?and not say chinese work on the railways? Blacks and south Asians seem
To be over represented. Is it because the job is unskilled, and "ethnics" don't object to shift work, relative to their white counterparts?!
 

CarlSilva

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I don't know if Gordon got his revenge and complained about my last post. Any how. The matter in hand. I don't know what all the fuss is about. Just watch yourselves out there. There are good people and bad people, in all colours shapes and sizes. You cant' tell by what they look like, but you also cannont legislate against generalizations, such as the ones in the magazine, or inddeed the ones in this thread.
And yes I do like prawn crackers. If you don't like them, that's good, all the more for me. Can I have some cashew nuts as well.
Cheers.
 

Senex

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I've been mugged twice in my life, once in London and once in Penzance. My wife also got mugged when we lived in London. In each case the attacker was young, male and white. In only one case was the perpetrator identified and, because of other offences he was found guilty of too, jailed.
Twice for me too, both in the same Midlands city. In each case the attacker was young, male, and black, whilst the person who came to my aid in the first case was young, male, and Chinese. Police not interested in either case.
 

TheKnightWho

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I don't know if Gordon got his revenge and complained about my last post. Any how. The matter in hand. I don't know what all the fuss is about. Just watch yourselves out there. There are good people and bad people, in all colours shapes and sizes. You cant' tell by what they look like, but you also cannont legislate against generalizations, such as the ones in the magazine, or inddeed the ones in this thread.
And yes I do like prawn crackers. If you don't like them, that's good, all the more for me. Can I have some cashew nuts as well.
Cheers.

Well you can...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/contents
 

Phil.

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I would suggest that white people are far more likely to be arrested for street violence / murder / rape than Blacks and Pakistanis even taking into account the fact that they are minorities. And just out of interest why specifically would honour killings be a problem for you?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Having read many of your posts over the years I'd already gathered this.

"Why would honour killings be a problem for me"?
Are you on the same planet? Are you telling me that you're quite happy to accept a man murdering his sister/daughter/niece because he's unhappy with the person that she's chosen to spend the rest of her life with. Please, don't come out with the usual lame excuse of, "it's the culture, we musn't interfere with people's culture".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Since this thread is about race. Why do so many blacks and south Asians,?and not say chinese work on the railways? Blacks and south Asians seem
To be over represented. Is it because the job is unskilled, and "ethnics" don't object to shift work, relative to their white counterparts?!

Because they can get a (relatively) well paid job without the requirement of having formal education qualifications.
Because they're prepared to work shifts and week-ends.

In the case of black Africans and people from the Indian sub continent a job on the railway is still often seen as somewhat prestigious.
Chinese is an interesting question. In 41 years on three different B.R. regions I can't recall a Chinese person on the job but there must be some out there somewhere.
 
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