Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

[Johnuk123]

Are you sure about that?, I don't see his name listed on the Labour Party site

Livingstone gave the NEC job up when his Hitler rants became more than tiresome.

 

[asylumxl]

Livingstone gave the NEC job up when his Hitler rants became more than tiresome.

And then the same people slamming Livingstone are happy to compare Corbyn to the Nazis and Hitler, such as the Daily Mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-team-Nazi-stormtroopers.html

They think if it's a Jewish person saying it it's okay when it isn't. The majority of the Jewish community find it unacceptable.

 

[northwichcat]

Interesting to read that Tatton Labour back Corbyn. A whole 6% of Tatton Labour members voted with Corbyn winning by just two votes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Interesting to read that Tatton Labour back Corbyn. A whole 6% of Tatton Labour members voted with Corbyn winning by just two votes.

Would the entire Tatton Labour party fit comfortably on a number 27 bus...

 

[northwichcat]

Would the entire Tatton Labour party fit comfortably on a number 27 bus...

The ones who voted to back Corbyn would but if all the members turned up they'd only just fit in a 11 car Pendolino. Of course the Corbyn backers would rather stand than sit in FC!

 

[St Rollox]

Have the Blairites split the party yet?

 

[Busaholic]

A member of my family has a real dilemma. She joined the £3 supporters last year and voted for Jeremy Corbyn as leader and Angela Eagle as deputy: she paid out her £25 to be able to vote again this time, having agonised about whether to do so or not. She didn't know who the contenders were going to be, and now feels utterly let down, as she cannot in all conscience vote for Corbyn again, but finds Owen Smith to be lacking in credibility and to be generally hopeless i.e. much the same as Jeremy! Not voting is an option, but it goes against the grain as she always votes if given an opportunity, even in the Police Commissioners nonsense. I have proffered my thoughts, which are that I would then vote for the candidate I considered least worst for the party and the country, just as, if I were an American, I'd have to vote for Hillary Clinton even though I loathe the woman, because just look at the alternative. What would you do? Serious and considered answers will be passed on.

 

[backontrack]

I'd vote for Owen. There has been a surprising amount of smear against him (probably because the tabloids want Corbyn in charge), but he's said some good things and he's clearly more capable than Corbyn. He may not have much experience, but Corbyn (as an MP in a safe seat for so long) has even less.

And the 'knock her back on her heels' thing is actually a common tennis term.

 

[fowler9]

I'd vote for Owen. There has been a surprising amount of smear against him (probably because the tabloids want Corbyn in charge), but he's said some good things and he's clearly more capable than Corbyn. He may not have much experience, but Corbyn (as an MP in a safe seat for so long) has even less.

And the 'knock her back on her heels' thing is actually a common tennis term.

Yeah, Owen gave out free Ice Creams in Liverpool. He gets my vote, clearly more capable.

 

[asylumxl]

I'd vote for Owen. There has been a surprising amount of smear against him (probably because the tabloids want Corbyn in charge), but he's said some good things and he's clearly more capable than Corbyn. He may not have much experience, but Corbyn (as an MP in a safe seat for so long) has even less.

And the 'knock her back on her heels' thing is actually a common tennis term.

He's said some good things, with the majority being rehashings of Corbyn's ideas. But Corbyn's quite obviously out of touch. :roll:

 

[jon91]

Owen Smith is such a bizarre candidate, the 'champion' of the NHS lobbying against the NHS using cheaper generic drugs (which are the same as the ones marketed by big pharmaceutical companies but are not longer in patent). Also, his voting record on Benefits has seemingly been anti-cuts yet he abstained from voting on the Welfare Reform Bill.

I just can't get my head around the man at all.

 

[Senex]

Owen Smith is such a bizarre candidate, the 'champion' of the NHS lobbying against the NHS using cheaper generic drugs (which are the same as the ones marketed by big pharmaceutical companies but are not longer in patent). Also, his voting record on Benefits has seemingly been anti-cuts yet he abstained from voting on the Welfare Reform Bill.

I just can't get my head around the man at all.

Isn't the tragedy of this election the fact that the MPs opposed to Corbyn could not come up with a more impressive candidate than Smith? He seemed to emerge from nowhere, and his campaign seems to be based on saying "I'll deliver many of Corbyn's policies, but I'm much more capable of selling them to the public than he is" -- perhaps plausible, given his lobbying past.

 

[DarloRich]

He's said some good things, with the majority being rehashings of Corbyn's ideas. But Corbyn's quite obviously out of touch. :roll:

but presentation and credibility is important. Corbyn clearly fails to understand the former and does not posses the later. I am still certain he will win the leadership election thus destroying the party as a credible alternative.

What a good job the Conservatives have all of our best interests at heart, especially the interests of the poorest. :roll:

Isn't the tragedy of this election the fact that the MPs opposed to Corbyn could not come up with a more impressive candidate than Smith? He seemed to emerge from nowhere, and his campaign seems to be based on saying "I'll deliver many of Corbyn's policies, but I'm much more capable of selling them to the public than he is" -- perhaps plausible, given his lobbying past.

Isn't it sad that many members seem unable to grasp that the bold part of your text is literally what seeking election is all about!

 

[asylumxl]

but presentation and credibility is important. Corbyn clearly fails to understand the former and does not posses the later. I am still certain he will win the leadership election thus destroying the party as a credible alternative.

What a good job the Conservatives have all of our best interests at heart, especially the interests of the poorest. :roll:

He's been drawing pretty big crowds at various venues around the country.

But of course they're all Momentum supporters or students or whatever stereotype people wish to throw out there this time.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But of course they're all Momentum supporters or students or whatever stereotype people wish to throw out there this time.

Are you old enough to remember what Liverpool was like when Militant Tendancy made noises far greater than their actual support was?

 

[asylumxl]

Are you old enough to remember what Liverpool was like when Militant Tendancy made noises far greater than their actual support was?

Because every single person to spent the time to go to see Corbyn in every major city is militant? Really now?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Because every single person to spent the time to go to see Corbyn in every major city is militant? Really now?

Do not attempt to rephrase what I said to suit your own ends and read my posting again. The only use of the word "militant" was that of the name of an organisation who were strongly based in Liverpool all those years ago, not a description of the people who attended the meetings.

 

[backontrack]

Are you old enough to remember what Liverpool was like when Militant Tendancy made noises far greater than their actual support was?

I am afraid, Mr Sidorczuk, that that may well be wishful thinking...

 

[yorksrob]

Watching the current debate, I can't help thinking that with the exception of Ernest Bevin, labour have always tended to be weak on foreign policy

 

[Tetchytyke]

He's been drawing pretty big crowds at various venues around the country.

The problem is that a big crowd at a rally might be 3000 people. In the grand scheme of things, that's nothing.

Isn't the tragedy of this election the fact that the MPs opposed to Corbyn could not come up with a more impressive candidate than Smith? He seemed to emerge from nowhere, and his campaign seems to be based on saying "I'll deliver many of Corbyn's policies, but I'm much more capable of selling them to the public than he is" -- perhaps plausible, given his lobbying past

That's my big issue with the right of the party. The big hitters, like Umunna, don't have the balls to do it (although I do wonder what made him withdraw his candidacy so quickly last time). Jess Phillips, too, is big on mouth and small on action.

As for copying Corbyn's ideas, that's not a bad thing really. The ideas are popular, and not just on the traditional left; much of what UKIP and Britain First argue for (aside the racism) isn't so very different. The problem is that Corbyn is not capable of leading the party and so, regardless of the merits of his ideas, he's never going to get a chance to deliver them.

I expect the press will turn on Smith just as soon as Corbyn is out of the way. Although it'll be interesting how Smith plays it: they can't be too hard on him now if they want Corbyn out, so it'll take a lot longer to knacker his reputation.

 

[asylumxl]

Do not attempt to rephrase what I said to suit your own ends and read my posting again. The only use of the word "militant" was that of the name of an organisation who were strongly based in Liverpool all those years ago, not a description of the people who attended the meetings.

And you were not drawing a parallel between them and those attending Corbyn's rallies?

 

[DarloRich]

He's been drawing pretty big crowds at various venues around the country.

But of course they're all Momentum supporters or students or whatever stereotype people wish to throw out there this time.

but big crowds arent enough and you must know that. For instance, Jezza was in MK last weekend holding a big rally. However it looked smaller than when our office is evacuated (which is 3000 people) into the same space.

Call it 5000 or 6000 in attendance if you like but all of those people still wont overturn the nearly 10000 Conservative majority in MK north or 9000 majority in MK south. He has to win over people who don't support his world view to win power. The polls show he isn't doing that.

(BTW we have seen MASSIVE labour rallies before swiftly followed by MASSIVE electoral defeat. Think Foot & Kinnock.)

 

[Johnuk123]

He's been drawing pretty big crowds at various venues around the country.

But of course they're all Momentum supporters or students or whatever stereotype people wish to throw out there this time.

Yes you're quite right they are all his fan club, means nothing at all, anybody with the even the most outrageous ideas can draw support from like minded people.

 

[ainsworth74]

And you were not drawing a parallel between them and those attending Corbyn's rallies?

Not the way I read it. I read as being we had, in the 80s, a group which made a lot of noise (particularly in Liverpool) but did not achieve very much at the ballot box and has now been consigned to history. We now have a different group also making a lot of noise and the concern surely has to be that the same will happen to them as happened to those in the 80s.

I don't see any suggestion that Momentum are similar or affiliated to Militant.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't see any suggestion that Momentum are similar or affiliated to Militant.

I have to say I did, Momentum are regularly compared to Militant Tendency and Paul himself is quick to label anyone slightly left of centre as a Corbynite. He labels me it often enough, and I've never voted Labour in my life, and certainly have no intention of doing so at the minute...

 

[asylumxl]

but big crowds arent enough and you must know that. For instance, Jezza was in MK last weekend holding a big rally. However it looked smaller than when our office is evacuated (which is 3000) into the same space.

Call it 5000 or 6000 in attendance if you like but all of those people still wont overturn the nearly 10000 Conservative majority in MK north or 9000 majority in MK south. He has to win over people who don't support his world view to win power. The polls show he isn't doing that.

(BTW we have seen MASSIVE labour rallies before swiftly followed by MASSIVE electoral defeat. Think Foot & Kinnock.)

Milton Keynes constituencies in their various guises have remained Conservative over the last few decades, bar 1997. I am doubtful Labour will win anything there with any candidate.

I'm not saying that the crowds are enough to win him elections or anything of the sort, but rather that not all the people attending these events are his hardcore supporters. Many normal people are interested to hear what he has to say.

Yes you're quite right they are all his fan club, means nothing at all, anybody with the even the most outrageous ideas can draw support from like minded people.

Do you enjoy beating equine?

Not the way I read it. I read as being we had, in the 80s, a group which made a lot of noise (particularly in Liverpool) but did not achieve very much at the ballot box and has now been consigned to history. We now have a different group also making a lot of noise and the concern surely has to be that the same will happen to them as happened to those in the 80s.

I don't see any suggestion that Momentum are similar or affiliated to Militant.

I do realise that, but the choice of group to try and illustrate his point certainly was no coincidence. You don't give Paul enough credit.

 

[DarloRich]

Milton Keynes constituencies in their various guises have remained Conservative over the last few decades, bar 1997. I am doubtful Labour will win anything there with any candidate.

I'm not saying that the crowds are enough to win him elections or anything of the sort, but rather that not all the people attending these events are his hardcore supporters. Many normal people are interested to hear what he has to say.

I don't really care who attends the rallies. There aren't enough of them to win an election.

MK South/ South West was Labour between 1997 & 2010

Conservatives won in 1992 with a majority of around 4500. Before that it was part of the larger Buckingham constituency ( held by Speaker Bercow) and has been Conservative for a long time. However it was held by one R Maxwell for Labour in the 60's In the 1950's it was a marginal and was held by Labour & Tory. At the last election the polls expected a much closer race and we got thrashed. We will get thrashed again.

The point is that the type of people Labour need to attract live here. We aren't closing the gap and we aren't attracting them.

 

[asylumxl]

I don't really care who attends the rallies. There aren't enough of them to win an election.

MK South/ South West was Labour between 1997 & 2010

Conservatives won in 1992 with a majority of around 4500. Before that it was part of the larger Buckingham constituency ( held by Speaker Bercow) and has been Conservative for a long time. However it was held by one R Maxwell for Labour in the 60's In the 1950's it was a marginal and was held by Labour & Tory. At the last election the polls expected a much closer race and we got thrashed. We will get thrashed again.

The point is that the type of people Labour need to attract live here. We aren't closing the gap and we aren't attracting them.

And Owen Smith will do that? So far everyone seems to think not.

Jeremy Corbyn supposedly doesn't connect with the public and lacks lustre. The solution? Replace him with someone equally lack lustre. Hell, there's people out there who won't vote for him because he's Welsh. Gonna give him speech therapy like Milliband, cos that worked well. As long as it isn't Corbyn right? What's the excuse gonna be in 2020?

 

[Harbornite]

Watching the current debate, I can't help thinking that with the exception of Ernest Bevin, labour have always tended to be weak on foreign policy

One of Labour's few foreign policy achievements was not getting embroiled in the Vietnam war, as was not using military force against Rhodesia.

 

[Butts]

I don't really care who attends the rallies. There aren't enough of them to win an election.

MK South/ South West was Labour between 1997 & 2010

Conservatives won in 1992 with a majority of around 4500. Before that it was part of the larger Buckingham constituency ( held by Speaker Bercow) and has been Conservative for a long time. However it was held by one R Maxwell for Labour in the 60's In the 1950's it was a marginal and was held by Labour & Tory. At the last election the polls expected a much closer race and we got thrashed. We will get thrashed again.

The point is that the type of people Labour need to attract live here. We aren't closing the gap and we aren't attracting them.

I can remember when Darlington had a Conservative MP 1983-1992 Michael Fallon was it not - you only scraped it by 3,000 odd at the last Election.

I empathise with your dilema at the current state of the Labour Party but you ruin it with all your anti-tory rhetoric. Has it ever occurred to you that you probably have more in common with left wing Conservatives than the same ilk within your own party ?