Okay that's enough. Let's not go off on yet another discussion about Hitachi and the 800s. We have a dedicated thread for that already. Thank you.
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GEML franchise 2016
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'd say this looks truly excellent news - a huge investment for a massive step change in quality. More, please.
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Wivenswold
Established Member
I was looking to see how many booked 12 car 317/321/360/379 workings there are each peak to see how 22 longer 10 car trains compares to now and only just noticed that they don't put the little "12" box in passenger timetables anymore.
Looks like a stock image, I doubt they will use one door per carriage, the long loading times of one door trains in Germany.......sheesh!
The StanEx one looks like the Voralpen Express model whilst the regional one is just the standard FLIRT3.
Also, good to see 2 years after Bombardier get the 710s rolled out, the AEA ones will be in traffic.
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MisterT
Member
These images look like actual impressions. Look at the bodyshell: it's clearly a different form factor than the European model.
And Stadler usually send out these kind of impressions when the order is finalized. We've had the same kind of impression for the Dutch FLIRT trains, and while the livery was slightly altered, the design itself was consistent with the impression.
And Stadler usually send out these kind of impressions when the order is finalized. We've had the same kind of impression for the Dutch FLIRT trains, and while the livery was slightly altered, the design itself was consistent with the impression.
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WatcherZero
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To me the two trains in the Hitachi photo for the regional and intercity Stadler versions look identical apart from the cabs. The intercity has a HST style flat sloping windscreen and headlights at mid level pointing further forward while the regional cab has lower headlights pointing further down and a more bulbous sloping wind screen. The intercity cab is ever so slightly longer while the regional cab has exposed buffers.
I think they are just concept renders of possible cab designs and not indicative of final train configuration.
I think they are just concept renders of possible cab designs and not indicative of final train configuration.
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The trains that have had the new seats and interiors look bloody good IMHO. I remember certain people who invaded this forum and commented about dust and insisting that every seat was flea infested - but I find the refreshed trains look good.
Good enough to last another few years, and in many cases more years when cascaded.
If I hadn't blocked some of these people that haunted me on Twitter, I'd send a nice Tweet to say that I said all along there would be lots of new trains. Not even I predicted a complete replacement.
As ever, I wonder what the other bidders offered? I wonder if anyone went down the refurbishment route? I get the feeling the DfT wants new rolling stock and the way to win future bids is to go down that road, sorry, track.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
If they are articulated, vehicle length will be shorter than normal, like Eurostar.
So 12-car Flirts may be similar to say 10-car normal.
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The Sudbury services being extended to Colchester is interesting as there is already pretty good connections to the North station. With 5 car units being ordered I can't see how they are going to do the Harwch services as Mistley and Wrabness are both on 4 car platforms unless they are going to extend them (difficult for both!) and the Braintree branch is 8 car platforms. And that's with the current carriage lengths but this sound like they will be longer. Either some major platform changes are going to happen or some significant SDO working is gonna happen.
Mikey C
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Some very interesting orders here
1) 23m coaches for the 10 car suburban trains?
2) Stadler providing electro diesels - suddenly there's a glut of providers to replace all the existing DMUs!
3) A separate fleet of Inter City EMUs - will Stadler be in a pole position to provide something similar for other "low speed" Inter City type lines?
4) A similar(?) fleet for the Stansted Express, instead of just using an Aventra derivative
5) Finally, I'm surprised that such good news was announced during the holiday season, a time of year when it's more usual to bury bad news!
1) 23m coaches for the 10 car suburban trains?
2) Stadler providing electro diesels - suddenly there's a glut of providers to replace all the existing DMUs!
3) A separate fleet of Inter City EMUs - will Stadler be in a pole position to provide something similar for other "low speed" Inter City type lines?
4) A similar(?) fleet for the Stansted Express, instead of just using an Aventra derivative
5) Finally, I'm surprised that such good news was announced during the holiday season, a time of year when it's more usual to bury bad news!
You've never driven a 379
I have on the sim!
Considering that Bombardier are building that huge maintenance building at Ilford, and all the Crossrail stuff is gonna be from them and I presume they will have a lot of commonality it makes a huge amount of sense for Bombardier to be building the fleet. Hopefully they have got their quality control up to scratch in recent years.
Wivenswold
Established Member
It's possible I suppose that a GPS tracking device could calculate what station a train is at and lock the appropriate doors. Or that the driver will have a choice of buttons. You could even have one door on the end units so that the front can overhang.
Longer platforms would be the preferable option though.
Longer platforms would be the preferable option though.
Bombardier tried the whole GPS thing and it didn't work very well as GPS isn't accurate enough, besides the Harwich branch has guards (let's not go down that path). Plus if they are longer carriages it will be more than 2 doors off the platform.
grumblingalong
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It also looks like the franchise award has not been impacted by Brexit or anything else going on in Westminster.
A full 9 years and maximum rolling stock replacement.
Just 2 types of stock means concentrated maintenance.
Nothing yet said about who is going to do it, or which Roscos are funding all the stock.
Good news for the next few franchise competitions, I'd say.
No sign of DfT cutting back.
2 x Norwich in 90 mins and 1 x Ipswich in 60, so assume the Norwich in 90 will be fast at Ipswich ! in fact fast from Norwich to London and at 3 in the morning
Sudbury to the Town & North, been done before and no one used it, same with the Lowestofts to London's.
Do we need 3 an hour Norwich to London all day ?
Remember when we had 4 an hour Ipswich to London, when 1 was late everything was late for hours after !
surprised they did not resurrect Harwich to Ipswich
in fact fast from Norwich to London and at 3 in the morning Sudbury to the Town & North, been done before and no one used it, same with the Lowestofts to London's.
Do we need 3 an hour Norwich to London all day ?
Remember when we had 4 an hour Ipswich to London, when 1 was late everything was late for hours after !
surprised they did not resurrect Harwich to Ipswich
Extend some, SDO for the rest?
rick_suffolk
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2 x Norwich in 90 mins and 1 x Ipswich in 60, so assume the Norwich in 90 will be fast at Ipswich !
Sudbury to the Town & North, been done before and no one used it, same with the Lowestofts to London's.
Do we need 3 an hour Norwich to London all day ?
Remember when we had 4 an hour Ipswich to London, when 1 was late everything was late for hours after !
surprised they did not resurrect Harwich to Ipswich
Interesting you say nobody used Low to Londons, are you an east suffolk line user? They sure did and stopped a lot of people driving to ipswich
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I recall the 170's passing Colchester, virtually empty some days...and the Basingstoke's !
dk1
Veteran Member
dk1
Veteran Member
I think you'll find the Peterborough services where lighter loaded, not East Suffolks. Even with connections there are often in excess of 50 transferring hourly at Ipswich now. I worked many very crowded 170s on both ends of the route.
Got to be good news for the region, complete fleet replacement. As ever the devil will be in the detail, but wholescale changes across the franchise. Some initial observations are the new depot at Manningtree, (for the Stadler Regional trains?). Not sure if a new railway depot is quite what Constable envisaged when he painted the area, where will it go, on the site of the former works on the north bank of the Stour perhaps? Good news that PBO - IPS goes hourly (presumably after NR infrastructure works) and many extended to Colchester too, Sudburys extended to Colchester Town as bi-mode interesting as well. And the fact that a 5 car 110m EMU will become the norm for most services with 10 cars on the busier ones. Hope that the interiors live up to expectations.
ScotTrains
Member
Has there been any mention of improvements to 1st class and also onboard catering?
Not that I'm aware but I imagine that sort of detail will come later.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
I imagine things will be different for LM bidders. They have a very modern fleet currently and they'll be additional 170s, 172s, 323s, 350s and 360s available for bidders to propose using. I imagine to win that franchise now you'll need a good idea for refurbishing 350s to a high standard.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I know you can't trust initial publicity, but the Stadlers do look articulated in the Railway Gazette article (both types).
They don't show the power pack pod though in the bi-mode.
Nothing on the Stadler site yet.
Kyle1
Member
Interesting to see AEA go against the norm and go for Stadler Flirt trains instead of the more conventional Hitachi AT300 derived ones. Just wondering, will this cause problems in the future as they're (The Flirt) a unique fleet as opposed to the AT300 which will be common?
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