Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

[JamesTT]

My understanding is that a public consultation was required as part of schedule 17, in respect of ticket offices.

In ALL the GTR blurb it advises that stations will be 'staffed' from First to Last. When asked how this will be possible, when staff use the train to commute to work, management response is non existent. When asked if there will be night staff to cover this, responses are non existent.

On the coal face all the staff briefs show that the Station Role will be implemented regardless.

Our station is actually 'losing' hours in its overal staffing, but that never gets released into the public domain.

I have spoken to a number of protected staff who have all said in the halcyon days of BR. The attitude of management was your shift starts then and finish then if there is a train to and from home those times lucky you. If not tough basically you have to get into work by some other means.

 

[craigy68]

I have spoken to a number of protected staff who have all said in the halcyon days of BR. The attitude of management was your shift starts then and finish then if there is a train to and from home those times lucky you. If not tough basically you have to get into work by some other means.

It will be interesting to see if they offer to relocate staff who are unable to arrive before first and leave after last ? Or would we get offered redundancy ? Answers from management, again, non existent.

We have been told our role and hours will change. In respect of salary, again ... response non existent.

 

[JamesTT]

It will be interesting to see if they offer to relocate staff who are unable to arrive before first and leave after last ? Or would we get offered redundancy ? Answers from management, again, non existent.

We have been told our role and hours will change. In respect of salary, again ... response non existent.

Have you received the RMT email re strike action? I wonder if GTR will try and question the legality of the ballot, as it will include dispatch staff as well. The introduction of the Station Host consultation has not mentioned changes to dispatch staff at all.

 

[craigy68]

Have you received the RMT email re strike action? I wonder if GTR will try and question the legality of the ballot, as it will include dispatch staff as well. The introduction of the Station Host consultation has not mentioned changes to dispatch staff at all.

RMT News/Emails/Publications started with ... Will will fight this no matter what !! ... I received one earlier today that focused on increased pay and lone working. I read into that, that they are accepting that the role will be introduced.

We were advised on a ballot in April ... The papers we are still to be received ... Not that I believe a strike would do us any good

The RMT will have to be careful when they ballot the members to avoid the legality question as many dispatch are now multi trained for ticket offices as well.

Platform/dispatch will be next once they do DOO

 

[FordFocus]

Do GTR and the DfT actually want any staff other than drivers left at the end of the franchise?

 

[ComUtoR]

Fine that's your personal choice ,however some on here frequently claim the railway relies far too much on staff goodwill then a few posts later reveal they never work rest days or overtime anyway

Yes the railway does rely on goodwill. Personally it is my choice, no one should be expected to work extra, and especially not for free.

I will, for certain people, work my ass off and go the extra mile when asked. They are good people and ones I have worked closely with over my many years. I have a great working relationship and I get back just as much as I give. Some, can simply suck my fat one. They are often rude and abusive towards staff and are ungrateful arseholes. I wouldn't move my turn a single minute for them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have spoken to a number of protected staff who have all said in the halcyon days of BR. The attitude of management was your shift starts then and finish then if there is a train to and from home those times lucky you. If not tough basically you have to get into work by some other means.

Not sure that's true. The Drivers who have various taxi agreements and TOC's who still put on a staff train are all there because of BR conditions. Nowdays its a case of Tough "£$!£"%"$£%$^%

 

[craigy68]

Do GTR and the DfT actually want any staff other than drivers left at the end of the franchise?

Very good question :roll:

 

[Flamingo]

Do GTR and the DfT actually want to pay any staff other than minimum wage at the end of the franchise?

There you go, fixed that for you

 

[speedy_sticks]

Perhaps one of the Southern Managers on here tell me why I shouldn't carry out a disability discrimination case against Southern regarding DOO/OBS.

This will have a severe impact on the disabled and vulnerable folks.

This isn't London folks, outside London is very different!

Why hasn't a Diversity Impact Accessment been carried out on these changes?

Please tell me how I am supposed to know if an OBS is on my train?

 

[Domh245]

There you go, fixed that for you

Depends if you count managers and executives as staff, does it not?

 

[Flamingo]

Depends if you count managers and executives as staff, does it not?

I do, but I don't think they do

 

[Skimble19]

It could get very interesting if station staff end up on strike too. I wonder if RMT would be able to time the guards and all station staff striking on the same day.. That would certainly have a major effect on services across the GTR network. The GN service would become very "interesting", especially in darkness as a large amount of stations require trains to be dispatched in darkness (where there are mirrors etc)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can anyone explain the RMT strike day understanding on the dispute on this particular thread, noting the number of such strike days and their frequency in such an extremely bitter dispute and the RMT confirming next week' strike days in Scotland on the dispute there, which are:-
Tuesday, 21st June
Thursday, 23rd June
Saturday, 25th June
Sunday, 26th June

I make that four strike days in Scotland in a six day period and I wonder how many RMT members there will find they are going to be a large sum out of pocket, whereas on this dispute in England, no such multi-strike day announcement of a similar nature has been made.

 

[infobleep]

Some good satire from The Brighton Gazette.

Man Missing For 5 Years Found On Delayed Southern Rail Train

A man believed dead or kidnapped, last seen heading off on his morning commute over 5 years ago — has been found alive on a delayed train.

A train boarded at Brighton Station platform 5 completely empty, almost like the Department For Transports very own version of the Mary Celeste. The doors open and a single figure slumped out of the carriage door.

Colin, 45 from the Seven Dials area of Brighton had boarded a wrong train which had malfunctioned and had been roaming the Southern Line autonomously for 1825 days. He survived on liquid dripping through the roof and his own limbs.

When questioned why he decided to snack on himself rather than the buffet cart he said “I’d rather eat my own leg than pay those extortionate prices”.

Train officials believe the train had been long forgotten after a mix up involving staff sickness, a conductor left the train and was never replaced. It had been roaming the Southern Network non stop ever since.

An automated announcement released a statement:

“If you have ever been waiting for a train and then one zooms past without stopping, you sometimes notice that there is no one on board. We believe that that might have been his train.”

The only thing uniting backers of the Brexit leave and remain campaign is their mutual loathing of Southern Rail, when the man was given the current news to help him catch up with what he had missed he requested to be put back on the train which had been his home for so long.

When asked why he didn’t sound the alarm within the train or break the glass he stated “Oh, I hadn’t thought of that”.

He’s hoping to rejoin his wife Angela however it seems she is now living with his mate Gary and has a child. Southern Rail said they will do all they can in the future to prevent this kind of occurrence and finished off with “we apologise for the delay”.

https://brightongazelle.co.uk/man-m...d-southern-rail-train-9d0f91a45493#.rgx860fo6

 

[Carlisle]

By 'negotiating table' I think RMT means keep everything the same until the end of the franchise. Negotiations over.

I think whether intentionally or not you've summed up the unions true negotiating position on all these DOO related disputes more concisely and accurately than anyone else

 

[ComUtoR]

I think weather intentionally or not you've summed up the unions true negotiating position on all these DOO related disputes more concisely and accurately than anyone else

Nobody has hidden RMT's stance whatsoever. NO DOO. They have been upfront and honest. Not by the back door or the front. NO DOO.

Let me restate that again. NO DOO. Did you hear this time or are you still hard of hearing ? NO DOO.

Their negotiating position is the same. NO DOO

Remind me what GTR's position is. 'Cause you know, I forgot and no one has stated concisely or accurately what they want.

:roll:

 

[Robertj21a]

Nobody has hidden RMT's stance whatsoever. NO DOO. They have been upfront and honest. Not by the back door or the front. NO DOO.

Let me restate that again. NO DOO. Did you hear this time or are you still hard of hearing ? NO DOO.

Their negotiating position is the same. NO DOO

Remind me what GTR's position is. 'Cause you know, I forgot and no one has stated concisely or accurately what they want.

:roll:

So the company is quite correct when it says that there is no point in trying to negotiate anything with the RMT.
.

 

[ComUtoR]

So the company is quite correct when it says that there is no point in trying to negotiate anything with the RMT.
.

BOTH side are coming at this from an absolute point of view. Can you not see that. It isn't one sided. GTR want DOO and RMT do not. What is there to negotiate ? First they must agree, then they must negotiate.

Negotiation isn't one side saying this is going to happen regardless if you agree or not. GTR want RMT to negotiate on the new OBS role. RMT do not want the new role or an extension of DOO.

Why would the RMT roll over and accept everything ?

Neither side are having meaningful discussions. What GTR are stating is a spin on what is happening on the ground and what some idiots are parroting back is the rhetoric spouted by GTR. Discussion needs to take place. Meaningful consultation needs to take place. Not a shut up and agree attitude from GTR.

 

[Robertj21a]

BOTH side are coming at this from an absolute point of view. Can you not see that. It isn't one sided. GTR want DOO and RMT do not. What is there to negotiate ? First they must agree, then they must negotiate.

Negotiation isn't one side saying this is going to happen regardless if you agree or not. GTR want RMT to negotiate on the new OBS role. RMT do not want the new role or an extension of DOO.

Why would the RMT roll over and accept everything ?

Neither side are having meaningful discussions. What GTR are stating is a spin on what is happening on the ground and what some idiots are parroting back is the rhetoric spouted by GTR. Discussion needs to take place. Meaningful consultation needs to take place. Not a shut up and agree attitude from GTR.

I wasn't disagreeing with you, just double-checking.

You mentioned that the RMT negotiating position is NO DOO. GTR want DOO, but there's not much point in having discussions if the RMT is *seriously* against DOO.

Either the RMT is (in line with their member's wishes) firmly, utterly and absolutely against DOO - or not. If it's 'NOT' then they need to explain why not to their members - and agree to start discussing the issues with GTR.

 

[XDM]

And DOO is safe & used world wide. Why on earth can't the public have it.
It allows trains to be run slightly more cheaply,quicker because all the bell ringing is eliminated & much more reliably because if a guard doesn't turn up the train can still run. And hopefully that will happen in August on Southern. A year later we will wonder what all the fuss was about. And former guards might enjoy not having to leap out in rain & snow, & enjoy earning a 5% ticket percentage without having transactions continually interrupted at each station.

 

[TheEdge]

It allows trains to be run slightly more cheaply,quicker because all the bell ringing is eliminated & much more reliably because if a guard doesn't turn up the train can still run. And hopefully that will happen in August on Southern. A year later we will wonder what all the fuss was about. And former guards might enjoy not having to leap out in rain & snow, & enjoy earning a 5% ticket percentage without having transactions continually interrupted at each station.

Are you trolling or are you actually genuine?

Cheaper. Excellent. Because the risk to human life is nothing against a nicer bottom line...

Quicker because no bell ringing. The RTS signal takes all of about a second. Which is probably the same or possibly less than it'll take a driver to scan the CCTV screens before moving.

More reliably? Are you willfully ignoring every single delay due to cameras/screens being broken or mirrors obscured. How many trains are actually delayed by a lack of guard when compared to lack of driver/train/fault/passenger or any other reason? I'm guessing you have no idea...

Again and again and again it has been pointed out the doors is not the problem. The problem is the removal of a second safety critical member of staff.

Would you be this okay if it was your job under threat for a profit?

 

[Flamingo]

And DOO is safe & used world wide. Why on earth can't the public have it.
It allows trains to be run slightly more cheaply,quicker because all the bell ringing is eliminated & much more reliably because if a guard doesn't turn up the train can still run. And hopefully that will happen in August on Southern. A year later we will wonder what all the fuss was about. And former guards might enjoy not having to leap out in rain & snow, & enjoy earning a 5% ticket percentage without having transactions continually interrupted at each station.

What job do you do? You have repeatedly been asked, and dodged the question. You obviously know just enough about trains to give the appearence of knowledge, and your posts are the classic example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

To reiterate, a Train Guard is NOT a ticket inspector who also happens to open the door. Tickets are something the Guard does after all their other duties have been completed. Your attempts to ignore this basic fact is displaying your total ignorance of the role, you would be better served by finding out about the job before you glibly post total wiffle.

Either you are being deliberately obtuse, or you want to be able at some stage in your day job to be able to point at this forum and say "Even the train enthusiasists don't want a Guard".

 

[speedy_sticks]

And DOO is safe & used world wide. Why on earth can't the public have it.
It allows trains to be run slightly more cheaply,quicker because all the bell ringing is eliminated & much more reliably because if a guard doesn't turn up the train can still run. And hopefully that will happen in August on Southern. A year later we will wonder what all the fuss was about. And former guards might enjoy not having to leap out in rain & snow, & enjoy earning a 5% ticket percentage without having transactions continually interrupted at each station.

You have no compassion for the disabled and vulnerable who will undoubtedly suffer under these changes.

 

[Fincra5]

And DOO is safe & used world wide. Why on earth can't the public have it.
It allows trains to be run slightly more cheaply,quicker because all the bell ringing is eliminated & much more reliably because if a guard doesn't turn up the train can still run. And hopefully that will happen in August on Southern. A year later we will wonder what all the fuss was about. And former guards might enjoy not having to leap out in rain & snow, & enjoy earning a 5% ticket percentage without having transactions continually interrupted at each station.

Won't be any cheaper.. unless the OBS role is scrapped after the franchise. No passenger will see any benefit from this Role IMO over a guard.

People who say their fares will be lower do amuse me so. They will increase by RPI as ever, in the new year.

 

[BestWestern]

And DOO is safe & used world wide. Why on earth can't the public have it.
It allows trains to be run slightly more cheaply,quicker because all the bell ringing is eliminated & much more reliably because if a guard doesn't turn up the train can still run. And hopefully that will happen in August on Southern. A year later we will wonder what all the fuss was about. And former guards might enjoy not having to leap out in rain & snow, & enjoy earning a 5% ticket percentage without having transactions continually interrupted at each station.

Former Guards will still get wet while they queue outside the dole office. Whatever your position is at GTR, I hope you do at least have enough grounding to realise that the great DOO swindle is going to impact the management grades as well.

Now answer me this; do you 100% truthfully believe that the OBS role will survive long term, in the form being suggested currently by GTR?!

 

[313103]

And DOO is safe & used world wide. Why on earth can't the public have it.
It allows trains to be run slightly more cheaply,quicker because all the bell ringing is eliminated & much more reliably because if a guard doesn't turn up the train can still run. And hopefully that will happen in August on Southern. A year later we will wonder what all the fuss was about. And former guards might enjoy not having to leap out in rain & snow, & enjoy earning a 5% ticket percentage without having transactions continually interrupted at each station.

One should never presume what a former Guard might or might not enjoy! As a former Guard myself whose whole life was turned upside down when DOO came in, so you have no idea what so ever your talking about. And who bloody says they will be getting any commission? Or is that yet another wild guess?

As for running cheaply that maybe true, but you as a passenger wont see it, me as a taxpayer wont see it, but along the rhetoric lines of the RMT the company's shareholders WILL and Horton will get a knighthood.

 

[Carlisle]

Yes the railway does rely on goodwill. Personally it is my choice, no one should be expected to work extra, and especially not for free.

I will, for certain people, work my ass off and go the extra mile when asked. They are good people and ones I have worked closely with over my many years. I have a great working relationship and I get back just as much as I give. Some, can simply suck my fat one. They are often rude and abusive towards staff and are ungrateful arseholes. I wouldn't move my turn a single minute for them.

Yes you make a very good point , Companies/management need to at least attempt to treat employees with respect because theyre decent and genuinely care ,it's in their interest and its the right thing to do , not merely because they happen to have strong Union bargaining power , which is where some the railway industry has rather slipped up a bit particularly since privatisation

 

[Haywain]

Some good satire from The Brighton Gazette.

You should check that source again - it's the Brighton Gazelle, not Gazette.

 

[Robertj21a]

Yes You make a very good point there , management need to at least attempt to treat employees with respect because theyre decent people that genuinely care ,it's in their interest and its the right thing to do , not merely because they happen to have strong Union bargaining power , which is where the railway has rather slipped up a bit particularly since privatisation

Agreed, but it simply won't work if the employees don't respect the management - I'm sure some of those are also 'decent people that genuinely care'.

It takes two to tango.

 

[Fincra5]

Yes You make a very good point there , management need to at least attempt to treat employees with respect because theyre decent people that genuinely care ,it's in their interest and its the right thing to do , not merely because they happen to have strong Union bargaining power , which is where the railway has rather slipped up a bit particularly since privatisation

The excuse from GTR that gets me every time is "Staff not working their normal rest days"...