Step entrance buses still in use

[Andyh82]

There is an operator in East Lancashire that is still using 1990s Mercedes Benz Plaxton Beavers/Alexander AMs etc in public service.

The question is, how are they getting away with it, is there a loophole, or is it just a rule that isn't really being enforced.

 

[156443]

Go North East still use step entrance Volvo Olympian's (3814-3832) which I believe will be withdrawn by January 1st 2017 due to DDA regulations on double deckers with step entrances. Single deck buses are supposed to be withdrawn step entrance buses from January 1st 2016.


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[THarris123]

There is an operator in East Lancashire that is still using 1990s Mercedes Benz Plaxton Beavers/Alexander AMs etc in public service.

The question is, how are they getting away with it, is there a loophole, or is it just a rule that isn't really being enforced.

It depends if what they are being used on is a closed service. It also depends on if these vehicles have been modified to meet DDA requirements.

I've seen a few odd vehicles in the west operating on public service, but that is either on a closed contract or the vehicles have been modified to meet DDA.

 

[overthewater]

There could be reclassed as coaches with no standing, that happened in Monklands before Mcgills come along.

 

[Volvodart]

Or they could have less than 22 seats so that DDA does not apply.

 

[Robertj21a]

They don't have to be re-classed as coaches, many were already defined as 'coaches' (i.e no standing is allowed). They have until Jan 2020.

 

[Y961 XBU]

Express Motors from Bangor are still using B10Ms in Service aswell

One thing that would be nice is if we all got together to make a list of all Operators still using high Floor Deckers and keep the list updated as the number gets smaller

 

[mbonwick]

There is an operator in East Lancashire that is still using 1990s Mercedes Benz Plaxton Beavers/Alexander AMs etc in public service.

The question is, how are they getting away with it, is there a loophole, or is it just a rule that isn't really being enforced.

Normal seating in a 709D was 25 or 23, so by removing a pair of seats or a full row, you get the seating down to 21 which means the vehicle is no longer subject to DDA regs (they only apply to 22+ seats).

It's not in the spirit of the regulations and DVSA were reportedly looking at how they could clamp down on it...but it's gone very quiet.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Express Motors from Bangor are still using B10Ms in Service aswell

One thing that would be nice is if we all got together to make a list of all Operators still using high Floor Deckers and keep the list updated as the number gets smaller

Aren't the B10Ms for schools work?

Saw one of Lloyds Varios working yesterday but fairly certain it's classed as a coach, working the 33 to Mach

 

[Y961 XBU]

Aren't the B10Ms for schools work?

Saw one of Lloyds Varios working yesterday but fairly certain it's classed as a coach, working the 33 to Mach

One was in service either last week or the week before as my mate got it

 

[Robertj21a]

Express Motors from Bangor are still using B10Ms in Service aswell

One thing that would be nice is if we all got together to make a list of all Operators still using high Floor Deckers and keep the list updated as the number gets smaller

.....but there will still be many hundreds of them around after the deadline, on schools and closed contract work.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

There is an operator in East Lancashire that is still using 1990s Mercedes Benz Plaxton Beavers/Alexander AMs etc in public service.

The question is, how are they getting away with it, is there a loophole, or is it just a rule that isn't really being enforced.

That'll be that operator in Accy, MM Minibuses I believe.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Stagecoach still have Olympians at squadron level at a number of depots. I think Grimsby is the latest to go all low floor. Personally, I pop over to Scuntorpe for the Olympians there as, on their only 399 trip of the day, Stagecoach will normally turn out an Olympian which means for a jolly good time if you get the right driver..!

I may be wrong, but I think Stagecoach Cumbria were granted a one month exemption from the low floor regulations due to the loss and damage of some of their fleet because of the floods

 

[Andyh82]

That'll be that operator in Accy, MM Minibuses I believe.

There is an argument now that M&M's Accrington local services don't make much money therefore they can't afford to upgrade to low floor buses.

If they upgraded they'd have to cut services, Lancashire County Council won't step in, so therefore it's better to stay with step entrance buses?

A situation that was probably not the case when the DDA rules were set in place.

 

[Robertj21a]

There is an argument now that M&M's Accrington local services don't make much money therefore they can't afford to upgrade to low floor buses.

If they upgraded they'd have to cut services, Lancashire County Council won't step in, so therefore it's better to stay with step entrance buses?

A situation that was probably not the case when the DDA rules were set in place.

If they are using buses that do not meet the current legal requirements, the TC can call them to a Public Enquiry and penalise them as necessary.

 

[mbonwick]

I may be wrong, but I think Stagecoach Cumbria were granted a one month exemption from the low floor regulations due to the loss and damage of some of their fleet because of the floods

Very wrong. They didn't lose anything to the floods this winter. Carlisle depot got flooded but the vehicles had been evacuated.

 

[carlberry]

There is an argument now that M&M's Accrington local services don't make much money therefore they can't afford to upgrade to low floor buses.

If they upgraded they'd have to cut services, Lancashire County Council won't step in, so therefore it's better to stay with step entrance buses?

A situation that was probably not the case when the DDA rules were set in place.

If this was in any way a defence (which it isnt) other companies could then use the same argument to justify running without insurance, drivers without the correct licence or vehicles without MOTs!

 

[Observer]

Operators have had enough notice to upgrade their fleet. If they can't make the requirements then they should not be running the service any more.

 

[Andyh82]

Indeed, but I was pointing out how it could pan out in the local press and the minds of local people if being forced to go DDA could result in the loss of the service altogether.

In any case I assume the minibuses in question have only 20 seats

 

[richw]

There are still a number of Varios operating round here, however all seem to be coaches or have the wheelchair lift. Varios with wheelchair lifts can be identified by a large near side door at the rear and also still having an emergency exit at the rear offside.

 

[Volvodart]

If they are newer than 2006, coaches used on public service have to have wheelchair lifts anyway.

 

[BestWestern]

There are still a number of Varios operating round here, however all seem to be coaches or have the wheelchair lift. Varios with wheelchair lifts can be identified by a large near side door at the rear and also still having an emergency exit at the rear offside.

Is a Vario with a lift a DDA-compliant bus, or does it still need to be classed officially as a coach?!

 

[Robertj21a]

Is a Vario with a lift a DDA-compliant bus, or does it still need to be classed officially as a coach?!

My understanding is that, provided it meets all other PSVAR criteria, a Vario with working lift will enable it to meet the requirements, even if it's classified as a bus.

 

[A0]

Normal seating in a 709D was 25 or 23, so by removing a pair of seats or a full row, you get the seating down to 21 which means the vehicle is no longer subject to DDA regs (they only apply to 22+ seats).

It's not in the spirit of the regulations and DVSA were reportedly looking at how they could clamp down on it...but it's gone very quiet.

They've probably looked at the number of vehicles affected still in use and come to the conclusion they are nearing the end of their working life - so on the grounds natural attrition will deal with them, its easier to let that happen than go through the cost and hassle of modifying the regulations.

 

[northwichcat]

On a bus forum someone said the following

It is legal, you can use a non-DDA bus on a service for 14 days of the year (or if a DDA bus comes non-DDA due to a fault up to 28 days of rectification).
Technically if you had 27 different bus services and used one DDA bus on each for the 14 days, then you could run a non-DDA bus for an entire year in service.

in response to this bus being put out in public service this year: https://www.flickr.com/photos/arrivanorthwestwaleswrexhamdepotfleet/24955909301/

Although when this bus appeared on a public service: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/GHA_Coaches_N9_GHA.JPG (belonging to a much larger operator) the same forum posters thought the operator had no defense for putting out that bus.

 

[Robertj21a]

They've probably looked at the number of vehicles affected still in use and come to the conclusion they are nearing the end of their working life - so on the grounds natural attrition will deal with them, its easier to let that happen than go through the cost and hassle of modifying the regulations.

Yes, quite agree. Although people keep mentioning step-entrance minis still running around in places like Accrington, Coatbridge etc it's really a very small number overall and I'm sure that many of those seen are either under 22 seats or actually licensed as coaches (and therefore legal) anyway.

 

[the101]

My understanding is that, provided it meets all other PSVAR criteria, a Vario with working lift will enable it to meet the requirements, even if it's classified as a bus.

This is correct - the regs state that the bus must have 'a boarding aid', and do not specify that it must be low-floor and with a ramp.

I suspect that whatever flouting of the accessibility regs is going on (and it is) is not being pursued by DVSA because (a)they have much better things to be doing and are under the same budget pressures as other public bodies, and (b)even if DVSA did have the means to deal with it, the TCs would not.

It is a similar situation to the Section 19 community transport outfits that openly flout the law. It goes on, but there is not the means to tackle it.

 

[noddingdonkey]

First West Yorkshire are still inflicting knackered, filthy, leaky R/S/T reg Volvo Olympians on the people of Huddersfield.

Despite having donated the last example in Leeds to Keighley Bus Museum a year ago, it seems we're expected to put up with these museum pieces.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

First West Yorkshire are still inflicting knackered, filthy, leaky R/S/T reg Volvo Olympians on the people of Huddersfield.

Despite having donated the last example in Leeds to Keighley Bus Museum a year ago, it seems we're expected to put up with these museum pieces.

Request Mods issue warning to above user for insulting the good reputation of the Olympians

 

[noddingdonkey]

I'm sure that if they had been maintained rather than patched up they'd be perfectly good buses. But these examples are falling to bits.