London Bridge reconstruction works

[urpert]

I think there's a coffee shop (Costa???) being constructed at the northern end of P2,3&4 at Blackfriars.

Simon

Yes, I just spotted that on Saturday. A case of "be careful what you wish for", perhaps.

If only it could have been another branch of FCB (as at Denmark Hill and Brighton). Knot Pretzels' coffee is decent too.

 

[Stew998]

I think there's a coffee shop (Costa???) being constructed at the northern end of P2,3&4 at Blackfriars.

Simon

Yes, looked like they were completing the fit out when I went past on Monday.

 

[ijmad]

I look forward to many a coffee there when most of the Catford Loop trains from my home station terminate in the bay platforms post 2018.

 

[Class377/5]

I look forward to many a coffee there when most of the Catford Loop trains from my home station terminate in the bay platforms post 2018.

Where do you travel from?

 

[Tangent]

Yes, I just spotted that on Saturday. A case of "be careful what you wish for", perhaps.

If only it could have been another branch of FCB (as at Denmark Hill and Brighton). Knot Pretzels' coffee is decent too.

Knot Pretzel have superb coffee. It's a pity I don't travel through Victoria more often.

 

[ijmad]

Where do you travel from?

I live in Dulwich so Denmark Hill and Forest Hill (for LBG) are both useful stations for me which is why I'm so interested in Thameslink and the rebuild.

My current reading of the Thameslink service pattern after 2018 is that up to 16tph will approach Blackfriars from Elephant & Castle, but only 8tph of this will go on up through the Thameslink core (joined by 16tph via LBG) in the peak.

Of the Elephant trains that proceed in to the core, 4tph will be Wimbledons (clockwise & anticlockwise), 2tph will be fasts from Maidstone East, and 2tph will be Sevenoaks services that will stop at DMK, Peckham Rye, and so on. The other 8tph will be a mix of Catford Loop, Rochester, Kent House etc.

Given DMK currently gets 4tph total in the peaks, I'd hope for a modest increase... to perhaps 6tph total (don't have any real figures for this, if it's even been decided yet), but as I say this would leave 2/3rds terminating at Blackfriars, but I suppose not very long to wait on average (not long enough for a Costa at any rate) if I can just cross to P2 for 24tph of Thameslink!

 

[FOH]

I've been noticing over the past few months a pile of Metro newspapers against pillars next to Hotel Chocolat and TM Lewin, I presumed it was the shops. Imagine my surprise one early morning when I saw two guys in head to toe orange railway protection clothing removing old Metros and stuffing the pillars with new ones.
Presumably the building site above has sprung a leak but I find it amazing the railway is so stingy that it has to use newspapers to make an unsightly sponge.

 

[ijmad]

The crazy Platform 8/9 announcements made me wonder how they'll handle the full set of trains being announced on the grand concourse when it opens.

28 CHX + 22 CST + 20 Southern + 16 Thameslink = 86 up in the peak

Obviously a few less in service in the non-peak direction. This is purely a guess but let's say 20 + 15 + 15 + 14 = 64 down... 75% of the up figure (anyone have a better guess?).

150 trains per hour. A train every 24 seconds. That's not a lot of time to get out "The train at Platform 4 is a Thameslink service calling at East Croydon, Gatwick Airport, Heywards Heath and Brighton" and many of the lists of destinations are even longer. Similar stations with large tph like Clapham Junction don't announce every train, but if it's been wired up, is there presumably an aspiration to do so at London Bridge?

Also, will London Bridge be taking Clapham Junction's crown of most stopping tph of any UK station?

 

[Class377/5]

I live in Dulwich so Denmark Hill and Forest Hill (for LBG) are both useful stations for me which is why I'm so interested in Thameslink and the rebuild.

My current reading of the Thameslink service pattern after 2018 is that up to 16tph will approach Blackfriars from Elephant & Castle, but only 8tph of this will go on up through the Thameslink core (joined by 16tph via LBG) in the peak.

Of the Elephant trains that proceed in to the core, 4tph will be Wimbledons (clockwise & anticlockwise), 2tph will be fasts from Maidstone East, and 2tph will be Sevenoaks services that will stop at DMK, Peckham Rye, and so on. The other 8tph will be a mix of Catford Loop, Rochester, Kent House etc.

Given DMK currently gets 4tph total in the peaks, I'd hope for a modest increase... to perhaps 6tph total (don't have any real figures for this, if it's even been decided yet), but as I say this would leave 2/3rds terminating at Blackfriars, but I suppose not very long to wait on average (not long enough for a Costa at any rate) if I can just cross to P2 for 24tph of Thameslink!

Denmark Hill gets 4tph peak services to Thameslink Core in January 2018 as the Orpington services switch TOCs with Maidstone East ones.

Other services are not yet defined properly as they will be SE's and tied to that franchise's requirements.

150 trains per hour. A train every 24 seconds. That's not a lot of time to get out "The train at Platform 4 is a Thameslink service calling at East Croydon, Gatwick Airport, Heywards Heath and Brighton" and many of the lists of destinations are even longer. Similar stations with large tph like Clapham Junction don't announce every train, but if it's been wired up, is there presumably an aspiration to do so at London Bridge?

Also, will London Bridge be taking Clapham Junction's crown of most stopping tph of any UK station?

Farringdon will see more trains once Crossrail is fully open and SSL upgrade is completed with 48 Thameslink, 48 Crossrail and 64 Underground trains per hour for a total of 160tph or one train every 22.5 seconds.

 

[ijmad]

Interesting about Maidstone East vs Sevenoaks trains. The last proposed service pattern I saw was this one which seems to show 2tph through the core stopping at DMK and 2tph on to Maidstone East but running fast most of the way. Is this a recent change to that plan or am I misunderstanding something?

Farringdon will see more trains once Crossrail is fully open and SSL upgrade is completed with 48 Thameslink, 48 Crossrail and 64 Underground trains per hour for a total of 160tph or one train every 22.5 seconds.

Well spotted, although if you're going to add in tube trains, surely London Bridge would get 34x2 extra from the Jubilee Line and 24x2 extra from the Northern Line, so actually something like 260tph-270tph if my reverse direction peak guess is anywhere near correct.

I suppose some argument could be made about London Bridge rail/tube being separate stations while Farringdon is less so?

 

[ijmad]

February works video from the Thameslink Programme

From what I saw:

- Progress on the Bermondsey diveunder viaducts.
- Track works on the London Bridge approaches (both east & west on the bridges).
- Demolition of the arches where the temporary Charing Cross slews were, and P4/5 and the bridge deck for tracks serving P4 & P3 will be.
- Work on the roof for the triangle of dead space between P9 & P10.

Amazing that there is now a 30 ft drop behind the hoarding on the old Platform 4!

 

[Class377/5]

Sorry for the delay, didn't see the reply.

Interesting about Maidstone East vs Sevenoaks trains. The last proposed service pattern I saw was this one which seems to show 2tph through the core stopping at DMK and 2tph on to Maidstone East but running fast most of the way. Is this a recent change to that plan or am I misunderstanding something?

Nope I believe the Maidstone East service is fast.

Well spotted, although if you're going to add in tube trains, surely London Bridge would get 34x2 extra from the Jubilee Line and 24x2 extra from the Northern Line, so actually something like 260tph-270tph if my reverse direction peak guess is anywhere near correct.

I suppose some argument could be made about London Bridge rail/tube being separate stations while Farringdon is less so?

Farringdon is very different to London Bridge but the SLL are very different from Jubilee/Northern line but then again Crossrail isn't on the same level either.

 

[ijmad]

Farringdon is very different to London Bridge but the SLL are very different from Jubilee/Northern line but then again Crossrail isn't on the same level either.

Indeed indeed... I guess we just agree it's a lot of trains, everywhere!

 

[FOH]

I've been noticing over the past few months a pile of Metro newspapers against pillars next to Hotel Chocolat and TM Lewin, I presumed it was the shops. Imagine my surprise one early morning when I saw two guys in head to toe orange railway protection clothing removing old Metros and stuffing the pillars with new ones.
Presumably the building site above has sprung a leak but I find it amazing the railway is so stingy that it has to use newspapers to make an unsightly sponge.

Same guys again there this morning at 0715, protective eye gear and all. Had a closer look and they are wearing Costain overalls. Just beggars belief.

 

[kentman]

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2016/mar/easter-spotlight-thameslink-london-bridge/

What will the work over Easter involve?

From Friday 25 March to Sunday 27 March, the redevelopment of London Bridge station will continue. This will be alongside work on the line between Cannon Street and New Cross to detangle the track on the approaches to London Bridge station, which will reduce the time that trains wait for platforms to clear, cutting down delays.

Are they re-modelling the layout around London Bridge P1/2/3 or around New Cross or something?

 

[Emblematic]

Same guys again there this morning at 0715, protective eye gear and all. Had a closer look and they are wearing Costain overalls. Just beggars belief.

The arcade in the vaults is purely temporary - with ceilings made up bits of plastic and polyethene sheets held up with sticky tape, it's no surprise that there are leaks. The retail units will be removed and the vaults widened back to the arches, which in turn will have new retail premises. The space is currently filled with temporary infrastructure such as rainwater tanks, cabling and so on.
As long as it's all sorted properly for the finished station, what does it matter if a small leak is soaked up with old newspapers for a few months. Quite a sensible option in my opinion.

 

[swt_passenger]

Took the train from Lewisham to Waterloo East earlier today, and for the first time in quite a few months went through St Johns and New Cross before moving over onto the temporary up Charing Cross. For most of last year the normal route seemed to be down the Tanners Hill route.

Has some crossover or other been re-introduced into normal service or has it just been possible but not normally done?

 

[Bald Rick]

Took the train from Lewisham to Waterloo East earlier today, and for the first time in quite a few months went through St Johns and New Cross before moving over onto the temporary up Charing Cross. For most of last year the normal route seemed to be down the Tanners Hill route.

Has some crossover or other been re-introduced into normal service or has it just been possible but not normally done?

The latter. There was a spell from Christmas 14 to August 15 when it wasn't possible.

 

[FOH]

As long as it's all sorted properly for the finished station, what does it matter if a small leak is soaked up with old newspapers for a few months. Quite a sensible option in my opinion.

Well the newspapers aren't old at all, in fact they were a pile of brand new ones just deposited by Metro.
It's not a few months either, this has already been going on for months and there are months more. How many should it be before proper action is taken?
I just can't help but feel this whole project is delivering a lemon of a station, the worst terminus in central London what with platform roofs that don't protect against rain and a howling gale through the concourse, the architect obviously forgetting Europe's tallest skyscraper sitting right above being an amazing wind generator.

 

[ijmad]

Some interesting photos of the London Bridge works from this video of a drone flying over London. Seem pretty recent...

 

[Barn]

The latter. There was a spell from Christmas 14 to August 15 when it wasn't possible.

Is Greenwich to Waterloo East physically impossible at the moment? If so when, if ever, will it become physically possible? (I know that there are no plans for timetabled services to resume.)

 

[Bald Rick]

Is Greenwich to Waterloo East physically impossible at the moment? If so when, if ever, will it become physically possible? (I know that there are no plans for timetabled services to resume.)

Not now, at least not without going via Slade Green. Yes it will be in future, but via a single set of crossovers. You won't be able to have trains CHX-Greenwich running parallel through the junction with a train Greenwich - CHX. Not enough space to get more crossovers in. Not sure of timing, most likely commissioning in Jan 2018. Some of the crossovers will appear earlier though, indeed parts of one are going in right now.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Some interesting photos of the London Bridge works from this video of a drone flying over London. Seem pretty recent...

I had not realised before that the new through platforms appear to be straighter - or was the Cannon Street side always more curved ?.

 

[swt_passenger]

I had not realised before that the new through platforms appear to be straighter - or was the Cannon Street side always more curved ?.

In the old layout P1-3 were relatively more curved than P4-6. The new layout provides a relatively straight middle section (alongside the two escalators at least) to all the platforms, but most of the ends generally curve to a certain extent.

New P5 and P6 are the straightest in the new layout, Up Thameslink and Down Charing Cross loop.

 

[Barn]

Will the last chunk of the footbridge disappear in August? I'd have thought that they would want to get rid of it ASAP but is the closure period long enough to do so?

 

[neilm]

Those platforms do look narrow around by the escalators, it doesn't look much better when the hoardings come down.

I do hope they have got the passenger models right as on the southern side the only people going down them will be for the tube and tooley Street

 

[hwl]

Those platforms do look narrow around by the escalators, it doesn't look much better when the hoardings come down.

I do hope they have got the passenger models right as on the southern side the only people going down them will be for the tube and tooley Street

I suspect not so you aren't the only one thinking that. P10 looks like being complete mess to access to/from the upper concourse as the gateline controls are at that end...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Will the last chunk of the footbridge disappear in August? I'd have thought that they would want to get rid of it ASAP but is the closure period long enough to do so?

The SER office building (staff transfer to office in new concourse in May) demolition starts in May / June so the P1 to SER building bit will go sooner.

That just leaves the P1/2 to P3 bit but there is no rush to do it in the blockade as there wouldn't be any trains running in service underneath it post blockade and running engineering trains / removing as much of the track /ballast by train is probably the priority for the blockade. This will be the easiest bit to remove.
CST trains will temporarily run through P5&6 post August blockade

 

[FOH]

Well the newspapers aren't old at all, in fact they were a pile of brand new ones just deposited by Metro.
It's not a few months either, this has already been going on for months and there are months more. How many should it be before proper action is taken?
I just can't help but feel this whole project is delivering a lemon of a station, the worst terminus in central London what with platform roofs that don't protect against rain and a howling gale through the concourse, the architect obviously forgetting Europe's tallest skyscraper sitting right above being an amazing wind generator.

Went through this morning and the papers and water are gone. Looks like guttering has been renewed. Who knows, maybe someone from Costain reads my moans on here and I made a difference.

 

[ijmad]

Those platforms do look narrow around by the escalators, it doesn't look much better when the hoardings come down.

I do hope they have got the passenger models right as on the southern side the only people going down them will be for the tube and tooley Street

And those for interchange to CHX/CST/Thameslink. The only way to the through platforms is through the lower concourse, so you have to go down and then up again.

 

[TimG]

What's going on in tooley street? Semi permanent one way system with cycle contraflow...