Realtime Trains blocked by ScotRail WiFi

[najaB]

Speaking of railway WiFi - not technically on the train, but just tried to access Real-time Trains on Scotrail station WiFi and got the attached:

.

Something to hide?

 

[AndrewR232]

Speaking of railway WiFi - not technically on the train, but just tried to access Real-time Trains on Scotrail station WiFi and got the attached...

I've been getting that too. Seems to work okay on the trains though. :?

 

[seapigeon]

They told me they were aware of the problem and had taken it up with their service provider, but that was a couple of weeks ago and nothing has happened yet.

 

[Clip]

Speaking of railway WiFi - not technically on the train, but just tried to access Real-time Trains on Scotrail station WiFi and got the attached

Something to hide?

Thatll be because its also accessed by staff so a blanket ban on sites like travel will stop them from trying to book a holiday or something when they should be working - common company policy across lots of companies.

 

[D1009]

Is it just me who thinks that applying a staff internet usage policy to a company's customers as well is a little strange?

Definitely not just you, denying access to travel sites by railway customers is plainly ridiculous.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

But not OpenTrainTimes or so it would appear from Glasgow Central Low Level today.
Is this something new? I've used RTT before to check platforms.
(Not that I need to on GLC Low Level )

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can sort of see why - people use it to circumvent hidden platform numbers.

OTOH, they could pack in the archaic practice of hiding platform numbers and there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[DarloRich]

Or so it would appear from Glasgow Central Low Level today, but not OpenTrainTimes.
Is this something new? I've used RTT before to check platforms.
(Not that I need to on GLC Low Level )

i came across this over Christmas but it turned out I wasn't connected to the on train wifi but the on station wifi - this was at Glasgow Central High Level.

 

[185143]

I raised the issue with them at Dalmuir via twitter and they said they weren't sure why it was blocked. Apparently Caledonian Sleeper encourage use of it!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Maybe it's a case of they're not happy with passengers knowing how bad the service is.

 

[najaB]

But not OpenTrainTimes or so it would appear from Glasgow Central Low Level today.
Is this something new? I've used RTT before to check platforms.
(Not that I need to on GLC Low Level )

Yes, it is new. I noticed it a few days ago in Dundee. It's not blocked by the on-board WiFi though, at least not yet.

 

[Clip]

There was a thread on this recently and I mentioned then that as its the station wifi this will come under the blocks that they will put on to stop staff from accessing stuff like booking holidays and such like on their work phones, all they need to do is take this off the exemptions list.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If I were Scotfail I'd be blocking everything that showed Joh Public how bad things are!

 

[mbreckers]

This comes up on Twitter a lot, the official ScotRail statement is that it is not meant to be blocked and they are in discussions with the third-party provider that provides their station WiFi to unblock it.

I know Tom himself has brought this up with ScotRail on twitter in the past

 

[PaxVobiscum]

There was a thread on this recently and I mentioned then that as its the station wifi this will come under the blocks that they will put on to stop staff from accessing stuff like booking holidays and such like on their work phones, all they need to do is take this off the exemptions list.

Oops, sorry! Can't seem to find it but if you can give me a link I can ask for the threads to be merged.

 

[Poggs]

I can sort of see why - people use it to circumvent hidden platform numbers.

OTOH, they could pack in the archaic practice of hiding platform numbers and there wouldn't be a problem.

Do you think there's any reason platform numbers aren't displayed until they're confirmed? I think it's to stop people from crowding around a platform entrance before a train's ready for boarding and also to protect against last-minute platform alterations and set swaps where the train describer can lag behind what's actually going to happen for a while.

 

[Clip]

Oops, sorry! Can't seem to find it but if you can give me a link I can ask for the threads to be merged.

Apologies it was buried in this thread about another wifi question

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=125914

It looks like Scotrail use the same wifi for all whereas really they should have a staff one and a guest one. Its not too difficlut for them to sort via their own IT department.

 

[me123]

This comes up on Twitter a lot, the official ScotRail statement is that it is not meant to be blocked and they are in discussions with the third-party provider that provides their station WiFi to unblock it.

I know Tom himself has brought this up with ScotRail on twitter in the past

It seems unlikely that they'd want to block it - at the end of the day the information is widely available.

It's more likely that the third party has blocked it by accident (as part of a blanket block of many websites, including for example adult content, that it doesn't want people to be using for various reasons). It should be a relatively easy thing to unblock - should take an IT professional about 2 minutes.

 

[mbreckers]

It seems unlikely that they'd want to block it - at the end of the day the information is widely available.

It's more likely that the third party has blocked it by accident (as part of a blanket block of many websites, including for example adult content, that it doesn't want people to be using for various reasons). It should be a relatively easy thing to unblock - should take an IT professional about 2 minutes.

But ScotRail also say that they have been asking the station WiFi provider to remove the Age and Gender questions you need to answer when connecting to the station WiFi and it still has not been removed. This has been ongoing for more than a year now.

Do we know who provides the station WiFi for ScotRail?

 

[Sox]

Can people just not use VPN (ne blokski)?

 

[Train man]

I'll recommend using a Proxy/VPN server. Use Ultrasurf for the laptop and VPN Master for the phone

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you think there's any reason platform numbers aren't displayed until they're confirmed? I think it's to stop people from crowding around a platform entrance before a train's ready for boarding and also to protect against last-minute platform alterations and set swaps where the train describer can lag behind what's actually going to happen for a while.

Yes, but it is an extremely passenger-unfriendly approach that worked in the days when there were seats for everyone but now does not.

There are a few approaches to solve it, which one works probably depends on the station:-

1. Compulsory reservations or some variant thereof[1] in which passengers mostly or all have reserved, allocated seats thus having no reason to wish to board first.

[1] A variant whereby one can obtain a reservation on the day at the station, like XC TMR, but where others are not prohibited from boarding with the presumption that they will be standing, could be an option.

2. Queueing areas, as Scottish stations like Inverness used to have prior to the installation of ticket gates. First come, first served. It would be very easy to change Euston (other than 8-11) to work in this way, as there are large areas by each platform which would be suitable for queueing.

3. Just show the platform and let people down as and when they want, this works particularly well if you run one type of stock and can thus mark door positions and form queues for each door on the platform. This doesn't work well with trains that have reservations unless they can be loaded/placed on the way in, nor does it work if you use lots of types of stock with different door positions. It sort of works at Euston P8-11 where passengers generally know where the doors end up.

Whatever is the case, the "Euston scrum" is not an acceptable way to run a station in 2016. In particular, it seriously disadvantages the vulnerable - we have rather moved on from "survival of the fittest" in 2016, have we not?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Apologies it was buried in this thread about another wifi question

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=125914

Right - thanks, and apologies to najaB who posted a near identical image to mine on 25/1/16.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2442511&postcount=25

I've suggested a thread tweak to the powers that be

 

[Haywain]

I can sort of see why - people use it to circumvent hidden platform numbers.

OTOH, they could pack in the archaic practice of hiding platform numbers and there wouldn't be a problem.

Yes, they could also abandon the archaic practice of cleaning and reserving trains during a turnround, and while there are no passengers in the way.

 

[najaB]

Right - thanks, and apologies to najaB who posted a near identical image to mine on 25/1/16.

No problem - just confirms that it wasn't an isolated issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, they could also abandon the archaic practice of cleaning and reserving trains during a turnround, and while there are no passengers in the way.

Trains have lockable doors these days

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Yes, but it is an extremely passenger-unfriendly approach that worked in the days when there were seats for everyone but now does not.

There are a few approaches to solve it, which one works probably depends on the station:-

1. Compulsory reservations or some variant thereof[1] in which passengers mostly or all have reserved, allocated seats thus having no reason to wish to board first.

[1] A variant whereby one can obtain a reservation on the day at the station, like XC TMR, but where others are not prohibited from boarding with the presumption that they will be standing, could be an option.

I can't think of a good way to do that. Do you have machines on the concourse? (not everyone likes machines). Or do you have staff? (that costs money). Perhaps you think it should be via an 'app' (Not everyone has a smart phone or portable internet device, or wants to/knows how to download the app).

Then you have to get past those that don't have a reservation who are hanging about in the vestibules or aisles, and even then you have to hope no one decides to chance that you didn't show, or won't ask to sit in the reserved seat.

Oh, and talking of 'no shows' who gets those seats? Do they remain empty?

And what of those who board 'down the line'? I suppose you'll say that people only going that far get those seats? Well that's dandy if they want to get off, or the next stop isn't pick up only. There's a very real risk that you can't reserve every seat and then they either become 'out of bounds' or a 'free for all', which kind of defeats the object.

2. Queueing areas, as Scottish stations like Inverness used to have prior to the installation of ticket gates. First come, first served. It would be very easy to change Euston (other than 8-11) to work in this way, as there are large areas by each platform which would be suitable for queueing.

Queuing area, hmm, isn't that just called "the concourse". Being serious for a moment, ISTR they used to have something like a queuing system at King's Cross, made it a pain in the rear to get across the concourse mind you, and didn't actually speed up boarding time or the scrum for seats.

3. Just show the platform and let people down as and when they want, this works particularly well if you run one type of stock and can thus mark door positions and form queues for each door on the platform. This doesn't work well with trains that have reservations unless they can be loaded/placed on the way in, nor does it work if you use lots of types of stock with different door positions. It sort of works at Euston P8-11 where passengers generally know where the doors end up.

Provided you don't also have a departure or arrival on the adjacent platform that might work, but you'll probably still get a scrum trying to get on as people try to get through the door ahead of everyone else.

Whatever is the case, the "Euston scrum" is not an acceptable way to run a station in 2016. In particular, it seriously disadvantages the vulnerable - we have rather moved on from "survival of the fittest" in 2016, have we not?

"The vulnerable"? Who exactly are they? The elderly, infirm and persons with disabilities can seek help from staff who should know which platform to go to and arrange a slightly earlier trip to the platform.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Thanks to the forum fairies who magicked (is that how one spells it?) the posts from two different threads together.

 

[Welshman]

"The vulnerable"? Who exactly are they? The elderly, infirm and persons with disabilities can seek help from staff who should know which platform to go to and arrange a slightly earlier trip to the platform.

They are those who are not quite as fleet of foot as they were. A few more grey hairs, a little weaker and a bit less confident, but who would feel a fraud in claiming a seat on those mobility carts.

People who would be happy making their own steady way without fear of being almost crippled by folks dragging wheeled suitcases the size of a small van, or side-swiped by garden sheds disguised as rucksacks.

I always enjoy my visits to London to see my family, except for the scrum between the platform being announced and eventually reaching the train.

It is unacceptable today, especially as it is a fair distance from the concourse to platform 18, which some North Wales services use, especially if you need the front portion of a 10 car Voyager, which is usually just at the foot of Camden Bank.

I can see no reason why the platform could not be announced earlier, and a queue be allowed to form down the grade and around the buffers at the head of platforms 16 & 17, and then folks be allowed the short distance on to platform 18 when the train has been serviced.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't think of a good way to do that. Do you have machines on the concourse? (not everyone likes machines). Or do you have staff? (that costs money). Perhaps you think it should be via an 'app' (Not everyone has a smart phone or portable internet device, or wants to/knows how to download the app).

The answer is all of the above. I like XC TMR, but the reason it has a weakness is that not everybody "gets" the obscure text message based system, and thus reservations are not offered fairly.

Consider a rethink:

- You buy a ticket at a TVM. When you do, the UI gives you a list of the next few likely connections with prices, DB-style, and you can choose to take a reservation at that point, and perhaps even select a seat if preferred.

- You buy a ticket at the ticket office. You are offered a reservation as you do so.

- You buy a ticket online near the time of departure. Same, you are offered a reservation.

And so on, and so forth. The final "walk up" feature would add the ability to insert a walk up ticket into a TVM (or present a ticket at the ticket office) and obtain one. Or use an app. Or text. Or whatever you want other than a horrible boarding scrum.

Then you have to get past those that don't have a reservation who are hanging about in the vestibules or aisles, and even then you have to hope no one decides to chance that you didn't show, or won't ask to sit in the reserved seat.

But you knew that before boarding, so you could choose to take another train if you felt that that was an issue for your journey. There are occasions when I would, there are occasions when I wouldn't. There are occasions when I'd upgrade to 1st.

Oh, and talking of 'no shows' who gets those seats? Do they remain empty?

One option is that the guard (we're talking IC here, there is always going to be an on board customer service member of staff, whether they have safety responsibilities or not) can go through and mark as available any unclaimed reserved seats. The other is that, just like now, you sit there (as you might sit in a reserved seat) and you might have to move.

It's basically a variant of the compulsory-reservation system operated by SNCF etc that doesn't outright bar you from joining an "oversold" train, but with many of the benefits.

Queuing area, hmm, isn't that just called "the concourse". Being serious for a moment, ISTR they used to have something like a queuing system at King's Cross, made it a pain in the rear to get across the concourse mind you, and didn't actually speed up boarding time or the scrum for seats.

It isn't supposed to be quicker, it may well even be slower. The point is that boarding scrums for uncertain seats (and that uncertainty may extend to whether reservations were placed or not, or whether the awful labelling system on Voyagers is even working today or not) is a stressful experience. easyJet realised, Ryanair realised. It's time for the railway to realise. In these days of higher loadings, it's really putting me off. My car, after all, never has this problem.

"The vulnerable"? Who exactly are they? The elderly, infirm and persons with disabilities can seek help from staff who should know which platform to go to and arrange a slightly earlier trip to the platform.

It would be interesting to know precisely how infirm you need to be to extract that information (other than gaming the system using RTT). But it's also difficult and stressful for families and the likes. Yes, they could reserve conventionally and stick to the booked train, but I think such a system allowing them to arrive at the station and reserve on the spot - and look at the seat map and say "there aren't 4 together, let's go for a meal and go back later" or something, would be a real customer benefit and is made very feasible by modern technology.