Class 373: My ideas for life after Eurostar

[DarloRich]

Maybe Vivarail have some ideas for them

that's a secret!

If i may comment simply by saying that the Railuk obsession with XC services to Brighton has, like the zombie it is, risen once again from the grave!

 

[grumblingalong]

110mph top speed on overheads.....clapped out and broken with no working toilets.....GEML?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

110mph top speed on overheads.....clapped out and broken with no working toilets.....GEML?

They could possibly be setup for 125mph running - new or heavily modified pantographs (with loss of HS1/LGV compatibility) or the installation of a 25kV bus running along the roof, removing the need for the two pantographs - without the need to split the set in an emergency, there's no reason why a bus can't be provided.

That's all $$$ though, which isn't what you need or want when looking at an ancient locomotive/EMU packed full of obsolete electronics few people know how to maintain and fewer want to maintain.

 

[Haydn1971]

full of obsolete electronics few people know how to maintain and fewer want to maintain.

Class 373 was constructed in the i486 era - I wonder how many of those still buzz away on desktops 23 years later I realise that industrial electronics are quite a different beast, but shows the progress

 

[najaB]

Class 373 was constructed in the i486 era - I wonder how many of those still buzz away on desktops 23 years later I realise that industrial electronics are quite a different beast, but shows the progress

Desktops, very few. In embedded devices, probably hundreds of thousands worldwide - excluding, of course, the ones that were never upgraded from i268 and i386's.

 

[Murph]

Desktops, very few. In embedded devices, probably hundreds of thousands worldwide - excluding, of course, the ones that were never upgraded from i268 and i386's.

Yeah, consumer electronics and desktop PCs are a dreadful basis for comparison. Intel were still manufacturing the 486 as late as 2007, it just wasn't visible to consumers.

 

[cjmillsnun]

PLCs (programmable Logic Controllers) from that era are still in common use in many industries.

 

[D365]

PLCs (programmable Logic Controllers) from that era are still in common use in many industries.

Not sure what era these stem from, but I'm working with Mitsubishi FX(0) series PLCs in one of my university modules. If anybody has experience with MELSOFT GX Developer, I could really use a helping hand

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Won't the traction package be knackered anyway by the time that Eurostar have finished with them?

 

[Murph]

Won't the traction package be knackered anyway by the time that Eurostar have finished with them?

That depends on the design, build quality, and how well it has been maintained (and assuming that it hasn't been heavily abused or otherwise over-stressed). A top quality design and build of electric motor has near infinite life, just may need to be rebuilt once in a while (new bearings and rewound for a major rebuild, then it's basically back to "new" condition).

Just look at some of EE's locomotives to see how long a traction package can last if it's built well and you're prepared to do the heavy rebuilds once every decade or two. 50+ years is quite possible for the right equipment, well maintained.

 

[al.currie93]

I can't really see any use for them on British rails, there aren't really any lines that don't already have more appropriate stock. The French are in a similar situation so regardless of whether they are truly clapped out or not, I don't think there's any use for them.

That said, they could be stored and used on HS2 if and when it's built to save a few million... :P

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Send them to Iran in exchange for getting any remaining Class 141s repatriated

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That said, they could be stored and used on HS2 if and when it's built to save a few million... :P

It's a shame HS2 isn't already almost finished, as the classic compatible sets are likely to be very expensive compared with the captive sets. The 373s would be ideal but is there any room for them in Box tunnel's secret sidings for the next 7-8 years?

 

[The Planner]

373s wouldn't work on HS2 unless they could start going higher than 300km/h

 

[najaB]

The 373s would be ideal but is there any room for them in Box tunnel's secret sidings for the next 7-8 years?

No. That is all.

 

[RobShipway]

They could possibly be setup for 125mph running - new or heavily modified pantographs (with loss of HS1/LGV compatibility) or the installation of a 25kV bus running along the roof, removing the need for the two pantographs - without the need to split the set in an emergency, there's no reason why a bus can't be provided.

That's all $$$ though, which isn't what you need or want when looking at an ancient locomotive/EMU packed full of obsolete electronics few people know how to maintain and fewer want to maintain.

If the electrics where up and running on the GWML, I would have said that the 373's would be good if halved to operate alongside the class 800/801, but as Philip says they would need to be heavily modified which will cost just as much money as per class 373 as buying a brand new class 800 hybrid off the shelf, which is probably more useful.

Another option, he says jokingly could be to halve them into 8 coach trains, remove the pantographs and place 3rd rail gear on them for them to be used as Gatwick Express trains or place the power cars either side of the class 442 trains and have them used as Gith originally suggested on Brighton/Portsmouth to the North trains.

Sorry for mentioning 442, but since it has been mentioned in nearly every thread created in the last few months I thought I get in there before someone else does.

 

[D365]

Forget 442s, I think 373s are the enthusiasts' new wet dream :roll:

I think this thread has run its course.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Forget 442s, I think 373s are the enthusiasts' new wet dream :roll:

I think this thread has run its course.

Not at all.

They only draw so much power on third rail that they'll black out each section of the BML they operate on, this would be offset by them taking so long to load you couldn't run more than two an hour between London and Gatwick, they're not cleared for the route but demolishing platforms isn't an issue anyway, but as they can't be rescued by any other stock on the route, that's not an issue either.

The absence of third rail equipment, which has been removed and skipped isn't a problem either, we'll just use a coathanger or a bit of bent electric wire instead, running it straight into the locomotive's main bus.

It's so obvious the enthusiast community have all the issues in hand and it's a mystery why the railway, both UK and France, have decided a scrapyard is the most sensible destination for the Class 373 sets.

 

[Mag_seven]

it's a mystery why the railway, both UK and France, have decided a scrapyard is the most sensible destination for the Class 373 sets.

Maybe an Open Access operator could take them on for a service between .....

 

[najaB]

Maybe an Open Access operator could take them on for a service between .....

St Pancras and Paris?

 

[cjmillsnun]

St Pancras and Paris?

Waterloo and Paris?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a shame HS2 isn't already almost finished, as the classic compatible sets are likely to be very expensive compared with the captive sets. The 373s would be ideal but is there any room for them in Box tunnel's secret sidings for the next 7-8 years?

No, because all the space is going to be taken up by 24 Mk3 based 3rd rail EMUs... :P (as well as the part of the steam reserve that passed boiler inspection)

 

[NSEFAN]

Waterloo and Paris?

Even less likely than St Pancras. Platforms 20-24 have now been allocated for Windsor-line suburban services whilst 1-4 get extended to 10 car length.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Even less likely than St Pancras. Platforms 20-24 have now been allocated for Windsor-line suburban services whilst 1-4 get extended to 10 car length.

They're flying out of Waterloo when the rotor blades are fitted to the VP185 engines being proposed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

373s wouldn't work on HS2 unless they could start going higher than 300km/h

Maybe an Open Access operator could take them on for a service between .....

St Pancras and Paris?

Waterloo and Paris?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


No, because all the space is going to be taken up by 24 Mk3 based 3rd rail EMUs... :P (as well as the part of the steam reserve that passed boiler inspection)

Even less likely than St Pancras. Platforms 20-24 have now been allocated for Windsor-line suburban services whilst 1-4 get extended to 10 car length.

Hey! All of you, stop letting facts get in the way of good wibble!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is the electronics side of the traction package being replaced when the trains are getting the refurb?

 

[XC90]

Yes I'm sure trying to get one into Queen Street would be interesting. the bottom line is they are not really suitable for any UK service, well you could put one on the Stourbridge branch as it wouldn't actually need to move you could just walk through it.

Queen street isn't electrified.

Take some coaches out and run them express Glasgow central - edinburgh via the Carstairs curve.

 

[Ianno87]

Queen street isn't electrified.

Take some coaches out and run them express Glasgow central - edinburgh via the Carstairs curve.

Will be electrified in a few years' time...not that that makes running 373s in there any better an idea, of course!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Is the electronics side of the traction package being replaced when the trains are getting the refurb?

Not that I'm aware - traction changes are an enormous undertaking and would require recertification of the entire train throughout UK, France and Belgium, there may be some smaller reliability modifications, overhauls of key components and the like, to improve reliability.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Dedicated trains for Newhaven Marine?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Not that I'm aware - traction changes are an enormous undertaking and would require recertification of the entire train throughout UK, France and Belgium, there may be some smaller reliability modifications, overhauls of key components and the like, to improve reliability.

The electronics side of the traction package could well be what decides when they get scrapped, many electronic components such as transistors have a finite number of times that they can operate before they fail