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Caledonian Sleeper discussion
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Quakkerillo
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Services suddenly got 30-40 minute delay just before Carstairs though, so it wasn't all smooth.
Sorry I was a bit curt with my original reply
I should have added the loco developed a brake problem that required one of the bogies to be isolated.
causton
Established Member
Going north to Glasgow on the night of the 23rd September. Someone must be watching this thread who can give me an interesting diversion or put a good loco on the front 
If the 92s are working you may have yourself a farce [emoji3]Going north to Glasgow on the night of the 23rd September. Someone must be watching this thread who can give me an interesting diversion or put a good loco on the front
causton
Established Member
All I want to do is the Borders line, then Edinburgh to Kings Cross on the 1700. Anything above that is a bonus with the reliability of the sleeper I'm not planning much else
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Have read elsewhere that 92s are now taboo apart from ECS workings.
GBRF are hiring in Class 90s for the time being to replace the 92s on front line duty while they iron out the troubles that they have been having.
Sam
Whistler40145
Established Member
Did any GBRF 66s drag in the Carlisle area?
Blindtraveler
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I shouldnt think that will take long, at least not for someone with a blowtorch, spanner, hammer and bolt cutters!
Going north to Glasgow on the night of the 23rd September. Someone must be watching this thread who can give me an interesting diversion or put a good loco on the front
When did that apparently start? I did a 3 day trip to Edinburgh last week, with a very smooth 92018 at the helm of the Lowland to Glasgow Central and 87002 on the return. 86401 and 86101 have both worked the Sleeper within the past month, and the two Riviera Trains Class 47s - 812 & 815 are currently in use with 812 on the ECS from Central to Polmadie, and 815 on the Carstairs to Edinburgh Waverly portion. The use of the 47s in Scotland is set to continue until the availability of both trained drivers and Class 86s pick up, with the 86s and 87s set to continue on the Wembley to Euston ECS workings.
If anything, the only faults I've found on my recent trips with the GBRf / Serco operated Caley Sleeper have been with the stock. One recent trip had a lighting fault with the Glasgow portion BUO, so the lucky passengers on that received a free upgrade to a Berth. My coach rather obviously hadn't been used in a while - I presume Mk2 9808 is normally used as a spare judging by it's condition!
As it stands however, Class 90s from both DBS and Freightliner have been used on the Highland Sleepers alongside GBRfs class 92s.
The 92s have been banned from the main sleepers and are now restricted to ECS and local trips, three of the 92s (92014/92023/82028) have even been stored in recent days!
92010 and 92032 are heading North today I believe to replace the 47s.
Whistler40145
Established Member
What's up with the 92s?
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
I don't know if this helps or not. Extract from another Forum
Seems to confirm what I was told by a driver at Preston on Saturday morning; he also noted that on their day they were good locos but subject to minor technical failures that made them unreliable. As he expressed the hope of seeing them back in service I presume that GBRf / Brush will now be looking closely at them to sort out the problem(s).
Not being technically-minded I wonder if the conflict arises from the equipment required for working HS1 and the WCML and whether the requirement for one conflicts with the requirement for t'other hence the decision by DBS to withdraw their 92s from services north of Daventry ?
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Whistler40145
Established Member
Isn't it rather ironic that not so long ago it was the Class 90s that weren't in good health and the 92s were brought in to replace them!
92's were not brought in to replace the 90's because of their reliability - it was because GBRf were able to offer 92's as the only loco currently able to power the new CAF LHCS on order for the CS (obviously DBS are the only other operator of 92's) and because GBRf have no other electric locos of their own. It would be interesting to know if Serco have had a hand in forcing the 92's off front line services and getting some 90's back.
Options:
1. GBRf progress a series of improvements to the 92's with further testing before bringing them back to front line services. Hire in 90's from DBS and/or Freightliner to cover (i.e. staus quo).
2. Create a small fleet of 90's with 'super ETS' to power the new CAF stock and abandon the 92's - would likely mean GBRf lose the contract to supply electric locos for the CS (they could keep the 73/9's on the diesel runs) so DBS or Freightliner have to step in ..... unless GBRf could get their hands on any displaced 90's from GA via Porterbrook eventually. Rather a lot of if's, but's and maybe's!
3. Serco procure a micro fleet of new 88's with 'super ETS' via GBRf or DRS.
4. I'm not even considering 87's and 86's - they are not a long term solution. Also running diesels on the WCML isn't really the way to go, even if technically feasible.
I'm sure that GBRf will try to pull out all the stops to sort the 92's, however, with three CS 92's now classed as being in store (018, 023 and 028), it looks like they dare not use them in the short term on Anglo-Scottish runs (or have been told that they are not to use them) until they are confident that they are, as an absolute minimum, at least as reliable as the 90's.
Whistler40145
Established Member
Personally, I was rather intrigued when it was announced that Class 92s were going to work the sleepers, mainly because they've hardly been used for passenger work and also required modifications to the ETH equipment.
Double-heading is obviously out because of the platform restrictions at Euston, but can two 90s provide double the ETH if they top+tail? In other words, whatever brings in the ECS at Euston stays on the back (and Southbound, the Lowland keeps both locos; the Highland gets another).
captainbigun
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Bearing in mind that this runs for 15 years it is questionable whether 90s are the answer, they already suffer from obsolescence and also suffer from reliability issues. Don't forget the CS franchise is the first time that sleeper performance has been measured in isolation, prior it was buried in the Scotrail numbers. There were just as many farces pre-CS days, it just didn't draw as much attention.
The 92s likely require additional re-engineering, if it is viable then in my view it is the way to go. 88s will be too expensive.
The 92s likely require additional re-engineering, if it is viable then in my view it is the way to go. 88s will be too expensive.
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
That isn't my recollection: The disruption that has occurred to the Caledonian Sleeper since April has consisted of incidents large enough to invite comment whether the services are combined with a larger franchise or not. The Caledonian Sleeper under First occasionally witnessed some major incidents, which were duly commented upon, but not with the regularity that they have been occurring in the past five months. Most major disruption that resulted in cancellation or displacement of trains by the morning seemed to be weather related under First, whereas now it is more commonly the equipment used.
I can't recall reports of Edinburgh passengers ever waking up in Glasgow prior to the current franchise, yet this has occurred twice under Serco. Lounge and seated cars were sometimes missing or locked out of use under First, but this seems to be a more regular occurrence under Serco.
I presumed that the reported drop in PPM figures of 10% in the first three months of Serco operation considered the sleeper services in isolation, but cannot be sure.
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captainbigun
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Without wanting to be flippant, unless you recorded performance daily, you'd not have seen it. I believe ppm would have been vs Scotrail overall.
I'm sure First Scotrail used to report the Sleeper PPMs as one of their "Regions"...
And equally not wanting to be flippant, where's your proof for that statement?
Blindtraveler
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And I'm sure your correct but not got the time just now to research it Im afraid. Iether way I have 2 friends who use it for business travel and who are now about to not use it any more as they have noticed reliability slipping badly compared to the previous 5 years.
Scotrail did report CS as one of their 'regions'. I looked up Network Rail and they are therefore able to compare CS with the previous Scotrail CS region: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/about/performance/#Delay-split
Caledonian Sleeper is reported as a PPM of 91.8% in Period 5, 2014/15, with the same figure being 85.1% in Period 5, 2015/16. So it looks like things are on the decline.
Blindtraveler, I am with your friends. I love the sleeper, but I won't be taking it for journeys where I need to be getting somewhere resonably on time if it is going to be unreliable. I live in Inverness, so there are not many alternatives, but I don't think I'll be using it to connect to other transport modes if it is unreliable. Hopefully they can sort it out but at the moment I don't trust it.
Caledonian Sleeper is reported as a PPM of 91.8% in Period 5, 2014/15, with the same figure being 85.1% in Period 5, 2015/16. So it looks like things are on the decline.
Blindtraveler, I am with your friends. I love the sleeper, but I won't be taking it for journeys where I need to be getting somewhere resonably on time if it is going to be unreliable. I live in Inverness, so there are not many alternatives, but I don't think I'll be using it to connect to other transport modes if it is unreliable. Hopefully they can sort it out but at the moment I don't trust it.
47271
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I was having a chat with some very regular business users (generally using Flexipass tickets, one of them making an incredible 40+ single trips per year) on a platform the other day and it was interesting to get their take on the first few months of CS versus what generally appears in this forum.
Positives: food, bedding, service from onboard crew and Inverness based office team.
Negatives: way more technical faults, then exacerbated by poor incident management. Unnecessarily oddly formed trains causing confusion.
There was some concern about what Serco are planning for pricing of the apparently crucial Flexipass (£130 or so per single journey at present and therefore competitive with any other combination getting you into central London for before 9am) both in the short term and with the new stock, not a ticketing point you ever see raised here.
Interestingly the concensus was that things were rather better than under Scotrail. It seems to be that if you use it THAT frequently the recent unreliability doesn't concern you so much, it only hits you one time in ten and you take it in your stride - the bed and food is more important.
By all means disagree with what I'm saying, I'm basing this on a poll of two, but both seemed pretty savvy and not especially in the thrall of Serco.
Positives: food, bedding, service from onboard crew and Inverness based office team.
Negatives: way more technical faults, then exacerbated by poor incident management. Unnecessarily oddly formed trains causing confusion.
There was some concern about what Serco are planning for pricing of the apparently crucial Flexipass (£130 or so per single journey at present and therefore competitive with any other combination getting you into central London for before 9am) both in the short term and with the new stock, not a ticketing point you ever see raised here.
Interestingly the concensus was that things were rather better than under Scotrail. It seems to be that if you use it THAT frequently the recent unreliability doesn't concern you so much, it only hits you one time in ten and you take it in your stride - the bed and food is more important.
By all means disagree with what I'm saying, I'm basing this on a poll of two, but both seemed pretty savvy and not especially in the thrall of Serco.
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