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End of SWT Franchise?

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Elecman

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Just seen this on media. https://www.facebook.com/Railmagazine/posts/868685379890952:0

Stagecoach Group plc ("Stagecoach") confirms that it has been notified by the Department for Transport ("DfT") that it is ending the discussions with Stagecoach subsidiary, Stagecoach South Western Trains Limited ("South West Trains"), regarding the direct award of a new rail franchise.


Gist is DaFT have walked away from DirectAward negotiations.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Just seen this on media. https://www.facebook.com/Railmagazine/posts/868685379890952:0
Gist is DaFT have walked away from DirectAward negotiations.

The markets have it, but not on Stagecoach or DfT sites yet:
From: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stagecoach-loses-south-west-trains-franchise-deal-2015-07-07

LONDON--Public transport operator Stagecoach Group PLC (SGC.LN) said Tuesday that it has been unable to secure a direct award for the South West Trains franchise due to differences with the U.K.'s transport department regarding the financial evaluation of the contract.

The company said the U.K. Department for Transport has ended its discussions with unit Stagecoach South Western Trains Ltd. regarding the award of a new rail franchise.

Stagecoach South Western Trains currently operates the franchise, which is due to end in February 2017.

Stagecoach said that the transport department expects to extend the current South West Trains franchise beyond February 2017. The company doesn't currently expect to earn a significant profit during any extension period

Looks like a competitive rebid for 2017.
Presumably Stagecoach didn't like the low profits from the Direct Award.
Cat among pigeons time...

Stagecoach will rebid when the time comes.
It's a bit like the situation with Cross Country when Virgin/Stagecoach could not agree terms - Arriva won that one.
 
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Stats

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Full Stagecoach announcement

otp.investis.com/clients/uk/stagecoach/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=273&newsid=537813

Stagecoach Group plc ("Stagecoach") confirms that it has been notified by the Department for Transport ("DfT") that it is ending the discussions with Stagecoach subsidiary, Stagecoach South Western Trains Limited ("South West Trains"), regarding the direct award of a new rail franchise.

The current franchise is due to end in February 2017 and, as previously reported, South West Trains had submitted proposals to the DfT as part of previously announced government plans for the direct award of a new franchise to at least April 2019.

The DfT has now indicated that it plans to invite applicants to tender for a new long-term franchise to commence sometime in 2017.

In the meantime, the DfT has indicated that it expects to exercise its pre-contracted option to extend the current South West Trains franchise beyond February 2017. The option allows the DfT to extend the franchise to no later than August 2017. Stagecoach does not currently expect South West Trains to earn a significant profit during any extension period.

Our direct award proposals sought to build on the extensive improvements delivered under our operation of the franchise since 1996, providing more benefits for customers, good value for taxpayers and an appropriate return for investors.

However, despite extensive negotiations, a significant difference has remained between both parties regarding the financial evaluation of the proposals. As a result, South West Trains has been unable to reach an agreement on a direct award.

Nevertheless, as the incumbent operator with nearly 20 years' experience in growing and improving one of the most complex and busiest rail franchises in the country, we believe we are in a strong position to submit a powerful and attractive bid for a new South West Trains franchise.

In the meantime, we will continue to deliver on our commitments to government and customers, including the £50m package of investment agreed with the DfT earlier this year as part of a Deed of Amendment to the existing franchise.

We remain positive about the opportunities in the UK rail market. Constructive discussions are continuing regarding a direct award at East Midlands Trains for a period of at least two years. In addition, we are currently shortlisted for both the Transpennine Express and East Anglia franchises.

Stagecoach will continue to evaluate opportunities to bid for UK rail franchises on a case-by-case basis. We seek new opportunities that offer the right balance of risk and reward, provide scope for us to improve services to customers, and which are compatible with maintaining an acceptable balance of the Group's portfolio between bus and rail businesses.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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why? wont someone else (or Stagecoach)pick up the new franchise?

Yes but it disrupts the carefully crafted refranchising timetable.
It will now clash with ICWC and West Midlands rebids.
It will also delay further improvements on SWT beyond that already agreed.
 

Alan White

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Can't come soon enough. Perhaps we'll then get a company which can run a reliable train service with a customer focus.
 

AndyW33

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Can't come soon enough. Perhaps we'll then get a company which can run a reliable train service with a customer focus.
Not unless some organisation comes along that has never previously operated a UK rail franchise you won't.
 

WatcherZero

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In a statement, Stagecoach said: "Despite extensive negotiations, a significant difference has remained between both parties regarding the financial evaluation of the proposals. As a result, South West Trains has been unable to reach an agreement on a direct award.

"Nevertheless, as the incumbent operator with nearly 20 years' experience in growing and improving one of the most complex and busiest rail franchises in the country, we believe we are in a strong position to submit a powerful and attractive bid for a new South West Trains franchise."

Stagecoach say they don't expect to make much if any profit from the contractual franchise extension period. The breakdown in talks appears to be Stagecoach don't believe the franchise would be financially viable in its present form and Dft wont alter the terms in a 2 year direct award.

The franchise is one of the largest premium payers but also in heavy revenue support. Last year revenues rose from £866m to £910m but revenue support increased from £133.5m to £160.2m. Franchise costs rose from £415m to £461m leaving a profit of £29.7m, up £4m but company dividends were down £17.5m.
 

455driver

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Can't come soon enough. Perhaps we'll then get a company which can run a reliable train service with a customer focus.

Yeah their trains are always late and when they do turn up they are filthy, the staff are horrible to the pasengers oops I mean 'customers'.:roll:

So oh great one can you spell out exactly what they are doing wrong and what needs to be done to fix it?

What would you expect (as a minimum) from the new operator, after all they will be operating the same routes with the same trains and the same staff!
 

Clip

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Can't come soon enough. Perhaps we'll then get a company which can run a reliable train service with a customer focus.

I only use them infrequently on trips to the south west(funnily enough) Exeter and the like but Ive never found them to be anything other than reliable.

PPM seems to be ok to at the moment

Stagecoach South West Trains 91.2 92.7 90.3

The 92.7% is the last 3 months which is higher than the national average.
 

WatcherZero

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Stagecoach press release confirms Dft are retendering for 2017 (and using the contractual franchise extension period Feb 2017-August 2017) rather than activating DOR.


DFT have today updated their rail franchising schedule chart.

OJEU Nov 2015
ITT April 2016
Award Feb 2017
Commencement June 2017 (Which doesn't seem to correlate with Stagecoach saying they think it will run to August)
 
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embers25

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Yeah their trains are always late and when they do turn up they are filthy, the staff are horrible to the pasengers oops I mean 'customers'.:roll:

So oh great one can you spell out exactly what they are doing wrong and what needs to be done to fix it?

What would you expect (as a minimum) from the new operator, after all they will be operating the same routes with the same trains and the same staff!

This misguided perception you alluded to seems to have arise because SWT has commuters that complain more than any other franchise on Twitter (possibly because of their operating area). Compared to pre-Stagecoach the service is light years better, their trains are some of the best turned out in the country and their partnership with Network Rail seems to be paying dividends too. I for one would rather maintain the status quo. The only issue is their fares which are much higher than comparable ones on Southern for example.
 

hassaanhc

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Can't come soon enough. Perhaps we'll then get a company which can run a reliable train service with a customer focus.

I use them regularly to/from Hounslow and I'm impressed with the service. The mainline is very congested and you will never get rid of delays. You should know by now that changing the name on the side won't make a difference to the amount of delays you get. And you have two examples from the last year as well: GTR, and LO West Anglia. It is fashionable to hate your train company and think anyone could do a better job, but in reality all you are doing is changing the name on the side and a few staff very high up.
 

Wolfie

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Can't come soon enough. Perhaps we'll then get a company which can run a reliable train service with a customer focus.

I hate to break it to you but you are having a laugh! SWT is one of the, if not the, best of the (non-"Inter City") TOCs (in my humble view the only real rival for the title is Chiltern)....

I sort of hope you get GoVia and the current SouthEastern management.....<D
 
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talltim

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This misguided perception you alluded to seems to have arise because SWT has commuters that complain more than any other franchise on Twitter (possibly because of their operating area). Compared to pre-Stagecoach the service is light years better, their trains are some of the best turned out in the country and their partnership with Network Rail seems to be paying dividends too. I for one would rather maintain the status quo. The only issue is their fares which are much higher than comparable ones on Southern for example.
Think you need to turn on your sarcasmometer
 

Alan White

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The 92.7% is the last 3 months which is higher than the national average.

Official statistics don't tell the whole story, partly because they're fudged by the industry and partly because the timetables are defined by the industry to suit the fudged statistics. If you use real-world data then a different story, more in line with customer experience, emerges. Here's a typical commute (times from RTT):

2C18 08:02 BCE-SNS
Tue 30 Jun, 2L BCE, 2L SNS
Wed 1 Jul, 3L BCE, 6L SNS
Thu 2 Jul, 3L BCE, 3L SNS
Fri 3 Jul, 2L BCE, 2L SNS
Mon 6 Jul, 2L BCE, 2L SNS
Tue 7 Jul, 3L BCE, 5L SNS

2S18 08:33 SNS-AFS
Tue 30 Jun, 1L SNS, 1L AFS
Wed 1 Jul, 5L SNS, 5L AFS
Thu 2 Jul, 2L SNS, 2L AFS
Fri 3 Jul, 2L SNS, 2L AFS
Mon 6 Jul, 2L SNS, 2L AFS
Tue 7 Jul, 5L SNS, 5L AFS

2C91 17:07 AFS-BCE
Tue 30 Jun, 8L AFS, 16L BCE [1]
Wed 1 Jul, didn't run [2]
Thu 2 Jul, 1L AFS, 1L BCE
Fri 3 Jul, 1L AFS, 6L BCE
Mon 6 Jul, 6L AFS, 6L BCE

[1] This is misleading as it was so late it ran fast ACT-RDG and customers were dumped at ACT to wait for the following train, eventually arriving 24L BCE.

[2] Ran fast CLJ-VIR so there was no service

In other words, every train was late or didn't arrive.

To this can be added the late-notice cancellation of the 1st May 06:50 BCE-RDG which caused me to miss a connection and pay for a taxi instead of the planned bus to arrive at my meeting on time.

And the twice recently when SWT ran no trains at all for the above commute during the evening peak, meaning that I had to drive thirty miles to collect someone. What did SWT do on those two occasions? Did it provide good customer service by giving useful information and arranging alternative transport? No, it did absolutely nothing.

And finally, SWT takes two months to reply to emails; not that the reply says anything helpful.

Perhaps one can see why I hope that another company will take over this franchise; a company that will run a reliable service and, when things go wrong, provide excellent customer service.
 

northwichcat

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Stagecoach press release confirms Dft are retendering for 2017 (and using the contractual franchise extension period Feb 2017-August 2017) rather than activating DOR.

Yes I've spotted that now.


Commencement June 2017 (Which doesn't seem to correlate with Stagecoach saying they think it will run to August)

Unless Stagecoach have altered the release it does say " The option allows the DfT to extend the franchise to no later than August 2017."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I sort of hope you get GoVia and the current SouthEastern management.....<D

Maybe Kelios will want to be the majority shareholder of a shortlisted bidder given the SWT franchise is one where there's £££££ for the winning bidder.
 

Feathers44

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So the 456s and 458/5s may be back for a re-spray before their current paint has even dried :)
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I thought the new franchise start dates won't be brought forward and DOR will pick up any franchises where Direct Award talks aren't successful.

Only in extremis.
I'm not even sure DOR still exists in practical form, except as consultants to DfT.
DfT won't want to let one of the biggest and most visible franchises fester.
Going back a bit, VT were stuck with a 1% management fee after 2012, until the 2014 commercial agreement.
I can see why Stagecoach did not want 5 years of that on SWT.
DfT may end up paying more for a rebid franchise, whoever wins.
You can also argue that with EMT and large shares in VT and and VTEC, Stagecoach needn't bet the farm on SWT any more.
The next test is the TPE award.
 

hwl

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Only in extremis.
Going back a bit, VT were stuck with a 1% management fee after 2012, until the 2014 commercial agreement.

With SWT currently making just over 3% a drop to 1% and about £20m less profit per year is certainly a good reason.
 

The Ham

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Can't come soon enough. Perhaps we'll then get a company which can run a reliable train service with a customer focus.

In the just over a year I've been using SWT's to get to work, I am as yet to be late to work due to trains being late, yes there are times when things go wrong and I get to the office later than I had planned or I am later home than I should be. Yes, there are things that SWT's do which are frustrating as a passenger and when trains are cancelled it's not comfortable, but they tend to be few and far between.

Even historically when I've used them for commuting (late 1990's and mid 2000's) I had little to complain about.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Stagecoach press release confirms Dft are retendering for 2017 (and using the contractual franchise extension period Feb 2017-August 2017) rather than activating DOR.
DFT have today updated their rail franchising schedule chart.
OJEU Nov 2015, ITT April 2016, Award Feb 2017
Commencement June 2017 (Which doesn't seem to correlate with Stagecoach saying they think it will run to August)

The West Coast and West Midlands dates have gone back somewhat to compensate.
South Western, West Coast and West Midlands will all be rebidding at much the same time next year.
I think Aug 2017 is the contract end date of the current SWT franchise if DfT exercises all the options. They obviously don't plan to.
It also looks as though DfT has extended the VT contract by 6 months to September 2017, and LM's by 3 months to October 2017.
 
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High Dyke

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The Mem had the e-mail from EMT this morning stating they are unaffected by this matter. Looks like i better get a bit more free travel in on the current SWT area.

As an aside i wonder how this affects the SWT/NR Alliance?
 

Bletchleyite

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In other words, every train was late or didn't arrive.

Most of those are sloppy operations, which is common to most TOCs. There are specific badly-timetabled LM trains which are never on time. While I agree the timetable should be fixed, I think anyone for whom a 2 minute delay makes a major difference should consider replanning their journey.

The one big complaint I have about SWT are indeed those failures to operate in circumstances where they could have done. Otherwise I think they are excellent and I would be quite happy for their management to be running LM instead of the current lot.

To this can be added the late-notice cancellation of the 1st May 06:50 BCE-RDG which caused me to miss a connection and pay for a taxi instead of the planned bus to arrive at my meeting on time.

I'd suggest that that may have been poor planning on your part. If your arrival time is completely non-flexible, plan in a train or two of slack, or if you can't travel the night before and stay in a hotel. Trains can and do get cancelled for entirely genuine reasons.

Perhaps one can see why I hope that another company will take over this franchise; a company that will run a reliable service and, when things go wrong, provide excellent customer service.

You'll be disappointed; almost every other TOC is of a much lower standard.
 

Robertj21a

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Can't come soon enough. Perhaps we'll then get a company which can run a reliable train service with a customer focus.

Presumably you're joking (or naive) ?.

Which operators do you consider to be better than Stagecoach ?
 

Carlisle

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Presumably you're joking (or naive) ?.

Which operators do you consider to be better than Stagecoach ?

How is Stagecoach SWT the best operation? ,yes their train cleanliness, refurbishment standards and staff are mostly very good but that could also apply to some other TOCs too
 
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