Virgin Trains East Coast launch day

[richa2002]

I don't hold the memory of East Coast too fondly. Solely because they removed the ability to have anything resembling a proper meal.

 

[martynbristow]

Though that was originally intended to go on the Pendolinos/Voyagers - the silver came later. Originally I think they intended to keep InterCity livery on old trains, they later decided to repaint (one XC set was repainted in unbranded InterCity livery).



TBH the bulk of LM doesn't need innovation, and while it uses brash colours and has the odd promotion like the Great Escape and the very low long-distance fares (mostly the doing of David Whitley, I believe, even though he's moved on to being a regional operations manager of some kind) LM is very conservative in the way it runs - which is precisely what it needs to be as primarily a commuter and local operation. What most LM passengers want is punctuality, reliability and a seat, nothing more.

I wouldn't, to be honest, expect it to be much different under DOR, or indeed BR.

Neil

What most passengers want .
Long or short distance thats my general thing, i can do the shop on the way to the station.

 

[JaJaWa]

More interesting would be to see how DOR got on with a "common or garden" franchise (London Midland?), where there's a lot less online booking and the catering isn't more than a trolley.

Didn't their equivalent run SouthEastern?

 

[Failed Unit]

For those interested. The reliveried set isnt refurbished. It was asked earlier and I didn't spot a reply.

 

[gavin]

VT have 2 sets in the new livery now

 

[387star]

Is it all vinyl

I doubt it is heavily painted as that would waste the public purse when they repainted them these past years

The grey and silver are completely gone which I didn't expect

 

[cf111]

Didn't their equivalent run SouthEastern?

Yes, the Strategic Rail Authority owned and operated South Eastern Trains Limited from 2003-2006.

 

[Robertj21a]

Stagecoach has not failed in any of its other rail operations, but these were all let at a time when pay back was not as critical part of the operation as it seems to be these days.
Will the other ones that they presently operate when they come up for renewal be different to the present set up for pay back time to the treasury only time will tell.
Not everything in life is guaranteed to work and keep working ok to the model of previous plan was done too, who would have thought that Woolworths and Comet would disappear off the high streets, both had worked to a previously successful model of operation, time will tell.

From his lengthy record, I would suggest that Brian Souter is probably well aware of the perils of making assumptions. Who else is out there who would be more likely to make a success of a train operation ?

 

[gavin]

Sir Richard has his photo-shoot today

 

[All Line Rover]

Perhaps not the best idea to get a shot next to the 'Danger' sticker?

 

[3141]

Probably off-topic, but that depends on how you define failure.

They failed to pay the promised dividends, and actually sued DfT for more subsidy, at East Midlands Trains (that cost the taxpayer £46m) and South West Trains (that one cost £60m). We saw similar agreements for Virgin Trains in the mid-2000s.

Call me an old cynic, but I can't help but wonder when East Coast's revenues will miraculously plummet, meaning Souter will get to hoover up yet more taxpayer cash in "revenue support".

I don’t know the EMT case, but my recollection of the SWT case is that it was finally decided by an industry arbitration body rather than in the courts.

However, by whichever route the decision was reached, the fact that it went in favour of Stagecoach indicates that they had a good case. So it seems unreasonable to criticise them for pushing it. If there is blame, it belongs to whoever constructed the contract in a way that the TOC was able to challenge (probably the SRA or the DfT).


I believe that "revenue support" is no longer part of TOC contracts. Instead there's a procedure for taking into account the effect of fluctuations in the nation's economy in calculating the premiums to be paid (I'm sure you know about that). So if East Coast's revenues fall (why "miraculously"?) because of wider economic trends and VTEC are required to pay less, that would be in line with the contract and not "hoovering up taxpayer cash".

 

[Deerfold]

I believe that "revenue support" is no longer part of TOC contracts. Instead there's a procedure for taking into account the effect of fluctuations in the nation's economy in calculating the premiums to be paid (I'm sure you know about that).

Funny, I'm sure one of the benefits of privatisation that was trumpeted in the 90s was that private companies would take the financial risk instead of the state.

So if East Coast's revenues fall (why "miraculously"?) because of wider economic trends and VTEC are required to pay less, that would be in line with the contract and not "hoovering up taxpayer cash".

The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Railsigns]

Funny, I'm sure one of the benefits of privatisation that was trumpeted in the 90s was that private companies would take the financial risk instead of the state.

“My Lords, at the moment, of course, the taxpayer pays everything for the railways. That is the historic position. As the noble Lord knows, we are now going forward to a position where we are putting the railway companies into the private sector. Once those companies are in the private sector they will be responsible for their own costs.”

House of Lords, 7 December 1994.

 

[ST156]

Does anyone know what the plan is regarding 91101/91110/91111...will they keep the current vinyls?

 

[Starmill]

They're staying....

Specifically 91110 and 91111 were mentioned (the "Battle Of Britain Memorial Flight" and "For The Fallen" locomotives). Rather pleased about 91110, a really good livery that one (and the nameplates done to match the SR Battle Of Britain class locos, great idea that was).

No word on whether the one in 'Flying Scotsman' livery (91101 I think) and the matching DVT will keep their special branding though.

I know it's not your fault, but we keep getting this question, and 'Will the 156s going to TPE be reliveried / refurbished' asked.

 

[EC123]

Special liveried locos (namely BBMF and for the fallen) will be staying in their current guise. As for the Scotsman, not overly sure.

 

[Starmill]

DOR's reputation will be a bit like their plain livery - something that anyone can project their opinion onto - to some they were caretakers who didn't honour the improvements that NXEC were planning (e.g. the 180s hired to provide bi-hourly Lincoln services), they weren't very interested in revenue collection (due to not being a profit motivated company) and they didn't make many improvements...

...but to those who used them regularly enough to get the benefit from free train tickets, nice food in First Class and other perks then going back to a "normal" TOC is going to be quite a bump back down to earth. The glass is either half full or half empty.

I think all of these things really. They're not necessarily mutually exclusive. Some free tickets don't make up for running a less good service than they should - that is what the Railway is for. If Stagecoach can run a 0940 Leeds to London on Saturday mornings from this year, why couldn't that have been done at some point over the previous 5 years? It's definitely necessary.

 

[westv]

Got an email to tell me my Friday train from KX could be the ex EMT set.

 

[Snapper]

I've added more VTEC launch day pix & Scottish images here: http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p755024368

 

[Failed Unit]

Got an email to tell me my Friday train from KX could be the ex EMT set.

It seems to be on the Hull service (both ways this week) not sure if it does a run to Leeds / York as well. Maybe 1100ish?

 

[West Ruislip]

It seems to be on the Hull service (both ways this week) not sure if it does a run to Leeds / York as well. Maybe 1100ish?

Should do 11.05 KX to Leeds.

The first week of April will see the next set emerge in the new VTEC livery, with all electric sets finished by August.

The first HST in the new livery will be released into traffic in May and, as the electric fleet, all HSTs will be in the new colours by August.

 

[westv]

I've added more VTEC launch day pix & Scottish images here: http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p755024368

It seems to be on the Hull service (both ways this week) not sure if it does a run to Leeds / York as well. Maybe 1100ish?

We're used to having other people's cast off......

........only joking.

 

[nlogax]

I like the design. Slightly fussy colour curves aside, I think it's a nice look and a decent colour. The Mk IVs suit the black window surround - is this a leftover from NXEC days, or a reintroduction by VTEC?

 

[Failed Unit]

I like the design. Slightly fussy colour curves aside, I think it's a nice look and a decent colour. The Mk IVs suit the black window surround - is this a leftover from NXEC days, or a reintroduction by VTEC?

Unlikely, the mk4s never had national express. They went GNER to East Coast.

 

[ThePannier]

Quick question: (sorry for distracting from the subject matter) - does anyone know any of the diagrams 91105 or 91124 are working tomorrow?

I understand it's a bit early and they may not have returned to their respective depots, etc, just wondering if anyone happens to know for tomorrow?

Marcus

 

[CallySleeper]

Quick question: (sorry for distracting from the subject matter) - does anyone know any of the diagrams 91105 or 91124 are working tomorrow?

I understand it's a bit early and they may not have returned to their respective depots, etc, just wondering if anyone happens to know for tomorrow?

Marcus

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112798

 

[ThePannier]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112798

Ah, thanks for the link

Didn't realise there was a separate thread for it haha.

 

[dk1]

Sir Richard has his photo-shoot today

He is welcome in my DVT any day of the week. I will even get the AMTs in.

 

[Skimble19]

Surprised they left the DVT door wide open... Virgin are normally more fine polished than that!

 

[dk1]

Surprised they left the DVT door wide open... Virgin are normally more fine polished than that!

On ya bike