ECML Disruption - Saturday 27th December

[GB]

Add into this the new planning software used that totally unrealistic. An example is on a recent job I was allocated 1 hour to move an insulator form one side of the track to the other. Due to lack of comunication from the blue hat engineer( not just a straight swap but a stagger move aswell) and seized bolts it took 4hrs.

That just goes to prove just how easy and quick it is for possession time lines to slip and slip....you then get to a point where is starts affecting other jobs within the possession which then snow balls and then it starts to affect operators and train crew which then makes things a lot worse.

 

[Starmill]

I think a lot of people, even those who paid a lot, would rather have had a smooth journey and no compensation than the chaos witnessed and even 100% compensation. Lots of people will forget or run out of time to claim compensation too - or even if they do get it they mightn't find it easy to use, paid as it is in Rail Travel Vouchers. So that's not a particularly strong argument.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, I think most people would rather disruption and no compensation or the need to make claims.

But there will always be times of disruption. Some due to incidents totally out of anyone's control and some due to preventable mistakes.

 

[ExRes]

Some due to incidents totally out of anyone's control and some due to preventable mistakes.

That's no fun though, who on earth can you sack or remove a bonus from under those circumstances ?

 

[14xxDave]

I think a lot of people, even those who paid a lot, would rather have had a smooth journey and no compensation than the chaos witnessed and even 100% compensation. Lots of people will forget or run out of time to claim compensation too - or even if they do get it they mightn't find it easy to use, paid as it is in Rail Travel Vouchers. So that's not a particularly strong argument.

I must admit when I was delayed out of the cross a few years ago (had to go via WCML, Manchester and York to Newcastle) I got my return fare refunded in travel vouchers and found them difficult to use within a year. My good money being returned would have been better but I can see why they do it.

D.

 

[EM2]

Mark Carne should have made his way to London on Saturday or Sunday. There is probably little else he could have done, but it would have demonstrated to passengers, the media, it's viewers and readers, that he was in control. He could have explained the problem (many people are sympathetic when they find out what has happened, whoever is at fault, but even now there is still ambiguity). He could have re-assured passengers that action was being taken, and motivated rail staff by demonstrating his control and leadership skills whilst thanking them for doing a difficult job. It might well have taken the sting out of the media reaction. However, he failed to do so, preferring to stay in Cornwall. That is like a red flag to a bull to the media, particularly where the perception is that the head of an organisation is taking a holiday whilst Rome burns. He should have pre-emptied that, and taken the sting out of the subsequent backlash. He didn't and the negative headlines on the rail industry are now being written accordingly. I'm not going to call for anyone's head, but I have to say that Carne's failure to foresee and to lead from the front is not what I would expect from a Chief Executive of Network Rail currently commanding a salary of £675,000 pa.

But isn't that what Robin Gisby was there for? What difference would it have made if it was Carne instead?

 

[amcluesent]

Who stays in a holiday 'cottage' like this? :mad:

 

[carriageline]

It's all well and good saying "cancel the possession and put it all back as it was", but sometimes that isn't possible. What if rails and point work have been cut up, gantries cut up, signals cut up? Cabling ripped out?

 

[Aldaniti]

But isn't that what Robin Gisby was there for? What difference would it have made if it was Carne instead?

Gisby isn't the head of Network Rail. But he's probably the scapegoat. Leadership has to come from the top.

 

[GB]

Who stays in their holiday 'cottage' like this? :mad:

God this thread is getting stupid now. What relevance does a directors house have with the actual issue?

 

[Temple Meads]

Who stays in their holiday 'cottage' like this? :mad:

And what has the size of a holiday cottage got to do with the ECML disruption?

(EDIT: appears GB got in there first! )

 

[GB]

Call it a draw

 

[EM2]

Leadership has to come from the top.

Didn't see our political leadership rushing back form their holidays when there were riots across the country...

 

[Aldaniti]

Didn't see our political leadership rushing back form their holidays when there were riots across the country...

In that case exercise your vote appropriately come the election.

 

[oldman]

The NR remuneration committee should say that his failure to break his holiday inflicted reputational damage on the company and that should count against his bonus. Part of the job description for taking home a big boss salary is that when things go wrong in a very public way, you turn up so that people can throw rotten tomatoes at you. It makes people feel better.

I suspect the sort of people who sit on remuneration committees may think differently.

 

[SimonS]

Three points came out of the interview with Carne on Radio 4: -
1. The first two minutes were spent trying to get Carne to say he wasn't going to take his bonus. Carne said when he took over he reduced the maximum bonus from 150% of salary to 20%. He refused to say he wouldn't take his bonus - the remuneration committee would decide. Did himself no favours !
2. Carne had, today, instigated an inquiry into the problems at Kings Cross.
3. After discussions with the Sec of State a review of working practices would be carried out i.e. Should these major projects be carried out in other ways by shutting lines and doing the complete upgrade in one non-stop operation.

Indeed he didn't do himself any favours. Especially the 'pause'

I would have expected him to be a bit more combative. Came across as rather feeble. Bit like NR's performance this week really.

 

[NeilWatson]

Indeed he didn't do himself any favours. Especially the 'pause'

I would have expected him to be a bit more combative. Came across as rather feeble. Bit like NR's performance this week really.

I thought Mr Carne was very dignified while the interviewer harangued him constantly - the pause was absolutely the right response to try and bring the interview back to the topic. It seemed to me that the BBC had no interest whatever in the actual incident under discussion.

An attempt to elicit details of the issues that happened over the weekend would have been more appropriate.

Why would Mr Carne wish to make any comment about his (or anyone else's) bonus until the facts are to hand - innocent until proven guilty!

 

[class303]

If first was empty and standard rammed, why on earth didnt TM declassify one of the firsts. In the circumstances surely the least they could have done?

I'm not sure standard was even rammed. sure didn't check.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

God this thread is getting stupid now. What relevance does a directors house have with the actual issue?

The Daily Mail (of course) - has an utter obsession with "house value" for any possible story - or non story in their case for many cases ! :roll:

 

[jon0844]

That's no fun though, who on earth can you sack or remove a bonus from under those circumstances ?

Didn't Billy Connolly try and sue God once? Never saw the film or heard the outcome. Maybe God settled out of court for all I know. Might be important for future disruption caused by bad weather...

The Daily Mail (of course) - has an utter obsession with "house value" for any possible story - or non story in their case for many cases ! :roll:

Isn't that the Express? That and the weather. And Diana. And Madeleine McCann.

(There's possibly a connection between all of the above, but I haven't worked out what it is - besides nearly everything written about any of those subjects being somewhat far from the truth).

 

[tcm1106]

Rather unfairly, Robin Gisby seems to be taking most of the flak for this. He's the director of Network Operations, ie the day-to-day operations of the railway.
I've not yet seen any mention of Francis Paonessa who is the director of Infrastructure Projects, and therefore ultimately responsible for this area of the business.

 

[6Gman]

The Daily Mail (of course) - has an utter obsession with "house value" for any possible story - or non story in their case for many cases ! :roll:

I note that today's Express gives us the value of the Chief Exec's holiday home.

As if it was relevant to anything .......................

 

[tsr]

Rather unfairly, Robin Gisby seems to be taking most of the flak for this. He's the director of Network Operations, ie the day-to-day operations of the railway.
I've not yet seen any mention of Francis Paonessa who is the director of Infrastructure Projects, and therefore ultimately responsible for this area of the business.

A prominent (website homepage) press release has been given out mentioning the latter person. See: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2014/dec/statement-from-network-rail/

 

[6Gman]

Who stays in a holiday 'cottage' like this? :mad:

Don't know, don't care!

[This is Railforums, not PlacebytheSeaForum]

 

[DelayRepay]

Mark Carne should have made his way to London on Saturday or Sunday... However, he failed to do so, preferring to stay in Cornwall.

He wasn't able to go to London due to over running engineering works at Paddington...

 

[45669]

The NR remuneration committee should say that his failure to break his holiday inflicted reputational damage on the company and that should count against his bonus. Part of the job description for taking home a big boss salary is that when things go wrong in a very public way, you turn up so that people can throw rotten tomatoes at you. It makes people feel better.

I suspect the sort of people who sit on remuneration committees may think differently.

He couldn't get back to London; Paddington was closed!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

He wasn't able to go to London due to over running engineering works at Paddington...

What is it they say about great minds...??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Who stays in a holiday 'cottage' like this? :mad:

With a house that size one would hope that there's a spare room turned into an office equipped with computers, telephones, internets and anything else needed to enable him to keep in touch with those at the sharp end.

Apart from showing his face at Finsbury Park to satisfy the media, he could probably do as much from a desk in Cornwall as he could from a desk in London.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Further to my earlier comment, and that of DelayRepay, I believe that Reading was open so he could have changed there and got the South West Trains all stations to Waterloo.

Or he could have changed at Exeter and taken a South West Trains 159 to Waterloo.

Had he felt it necessary to be in London, of course.

 

[Aldaniti]

He wasn't able to go to London due to over running engineering works at Paddington...

Could he actually use that as an excuse? Surely not. I'm reliably informed that he didn't go down to Cornwall by train. Seems quite sensible, no doubt his Dawlish baptism of fire is still etched in his mind. Anyway, what goes down must come up, or something like that. No excuses.

That press release is like watching a car accident in slow motion and unlikely to make things better. When you're on the skids, concentrate on the matter in hand. All those punters (and media) at Finsbury Park last Saturday are not really interested in new signals at Stafford, a new bridge over the River Teme, a new track at a north London depot or whether there's a Peruvian bear on the concourse at Paddington. For many, the journey is over, others simply want re-assurance that their next rail journey is unlikely to be fraught with such difficulty. People like Branson recognise this, I really don't like him that much, but I recall the Grayrigg incident when he flew from Fantasy Island and was on the box the day after. OK, to anyone who knows anything about railways it wasn't a great performance, but 95% of punters know nothing about railway operations.

Sadly Carne has made the mistakes and the damage has now been done.

 

[Red Dragon]

A prominent (website homepage) press release has been given out mentioning the latter person. See: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2014/dec/statement-from-network-rail/

Well spotted, and very interesting to see what is said about/happens to Dr Francis Paonessa.

A name to put in the MR section of my brain cell !

 

[jon0844]

That press release is like watching a car accident in slow motion and unlikely to make things better. When you're on the skids, concentrate on the matter in hand. All those punters (and media) at Finsbury Park last Saturday are not really interested in new signals at Stafford, a new bridge over the River Teme, a new track at a north London depot or whether there's a Peruvian bear on the concourse at Paddington. For many, the journey is over, others simply want re-assurance that their next rail journey is unlikely to be fraught with such difficulty. People like Branson recognise this, I really don't like him that much, but I recall the Grayrigg incident when he flew from Fantasy Island and was on the box the day after. OK, to anyone who knows anything about railways it wasn't a great performance, but 95% of punters know nothing about railway operations.

Sadly Carne has made the mistakes and the damage has now been done.

The above does prove that Sir Richard knew the value of good PR (just like carrying passengers on his trains during disruption elsewhere, or when the airlines suffered from the ash cloud etc).

Of course, the situation at Grayrigg was rather more in favour of Virgin in that it was soon apparent that the train hadn't been speeding, and it was merely a victim of poor maintenance. Far easier to manage PR in those situations.

I can't remember what the press release from Network Rail at the time was though, as that's perhaps more relevant.

In the incident over the weekend had happened this time next year, we would of course have seen how Virgin played it - even though Virgin (okay, Stagecoach) might have actually had questions to answer this time around.

Mind you, would anyone dare ask those questions to Mr Branson? Would he be grilled in the same way as Network Rail? Would any paper want to risk falling out with Virgin and run the risk of not be invited to V Festival next year, and get to sit amongst the celebs in the Louder Lounge?

 

[Antman]

Yes I can, and I just did. I know all about 7/7 and was at Finsbury Park that afternoon, so it was even more relevant.

But, yes, some people won't accept disruption even if they do get home eventually. Chances are some of those people put out who paid a not inconsiderable sum got a lot of that money back if their train was delayed or cancelled, mind.

Edit: PG above has pretty much confirmed what I thought about people all making the best of a bad situation and proving the Dunkirk spirit is brought out in all of us.

Can we leave 7/7 out of this as it really isn't relevant.

Maybe if the events of the last few days were due to outside factors (ie exceptionally bad weather) passengers may be a bit more understanding but can you really imagine anyone from the rail industry or a politician coming on TV and suggesting passengers adopt a Dunkirk spirit and just be grateful if they got to their destination eventually?