edwin_m
Veteran Member
To be pedantic (gotta make use of that expensive education somewhere!) he hasn't refuted it, which would mean proving it to be incorrect. He's only denied it.
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Employer led culture
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To be pedantic (gotta make use of that expensive education somewhere!) he hasn't refuted it, which would mean proving it to be incorrect. He's only denied it.
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SWTH
Member
Novel concept: where would the money come from to fund such a scheme?
ExRes
Established Member
It makes me really warm inside to see that in order to try and rubbish Nigel Farage and UKIP that you hypocrites have even taken to quoting Daily Mail articles, what else needs to be said ?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I am not trying to rubbish Farage or UKIP - the crackpots do that job all by themselves.
If you dont like the Mail ( which is odd for UKIP'rs) try:
Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-farage-insurance-based-nhs-private-companies
Mirror: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-caught-camera-admitting-4617184
Times: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4266023.html
hock: 
EM2
Established Member
The Irish state system is not 'free at the point of delivery', as the NHS is. GP appointments, hospital admission, A&E visits and medicines are all chargeable, however there is a drugs refund scheme which limits the maximum a patient has to pay each month, and other services such as out-patients, operations, counselling and so on are not charged.
Those over a certain age, and also those earning below a certain amount, qualify for a medical card which means all services and medicines are provided free.
Hornet
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It's cheaper for me to see my Doctor in Slough (Flights included), than walk 5 minutes up the road to the Doctor my other half uses in Dublin. It's €70 for a consultation. My other half renewed her prescription today. It costs her €95 a month, which is what she has to pay before the refund scheme kicks in. Her Granddaughter, who is 13, has just had braces fitted at a cost of €3600. Plus the Health Service here is in a far more parlous state than the UK, which is why I head back home if I need a Doctor, (and considering how much tax and NI I paid in the UK, and as a British Citizen, I'm more than entitled to do so).
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That's sort of where I start to stumble on the idea and how to make it actually work!
Hornet
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Google 'savita halappanavar' if you want to read an Irish Hospital horror story. Backwardness doesn't even begin to describe it. One of the most disgusting events that I have had the misfortune to read about. Health care here in Ireland is appalling. Be thankful that the NHS exists. Both myself and my Mother have had need of it, and we both have nothing but praise and admiration for it. If you think it is a "con" then come over here, or go to the States to see how the great unwashed are treated, (or not as the case may be),
In general, avoiding English speaking countries is a good rule of thumb. In reference to going to university in Scotland, I still would prefer going to the Netherlands to study even if fees were payable. Scotland copies England even when it doesn't have to. For example, Scotland has had devolved transport for well over a decade and still copies England in having bus deregulation and poor cycling facilities. In relation to what this thread is about, i.e. the employer led working environment, that's the same throughout the English speaking world.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It does, though admittedly Edinburgh doesn't feel like that, it's pseudo-regulated because few will bother challenging Lothian.
Neil
No, the banking system is, particularly mortgages, which amount to little more than modern day feudalism as far as I can see. Instead of paying a third of your turnips to tha Laird for the rest of your life, you pay a chunk of your wages to a faceless financial institution for ever more.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
First have attempted to compete on certain routes in the past, for example to Balerno. But the lack of competition is typical of deregulation. Most places have one overwhelmingly dominant operator Even in Edinburgh, the same rules of deregulation apply as elsewhere in Scotland, England and Wales. Commercial services have to run without subsidy (apart from BSOG).
SS4
Established Member
It would largely replace the current schemes of allowance. Of course if we believe the right there is more than enough money in the benefits pool
That faceless institution enabled you to buy a house.... I'm not sure whether that should really be a criticism levied at the banks...or at house ownership and the lack of supply/high house prices in the UK? You could always rent
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
If this be the case, why would any organisation or individual in their right mind want to use their own finance to both set up and run a company without having the right to have a certain amount of control in the said organisation. It always reminds me of organisations or individuals who enter the field of football to take over football clubs, who pour vast amounts of finance into the said clubs, who are then castigated by supporters whose financial input is negligible in comparison, but who feel that they should be viewed as major financial players "with the same amount of clout" as "the management" in any matters of debate.
If you don't like the ethos of current management techniques in this day and age, do what those people did who first set up the Co-operative movement and set up your own organisation and run it philanthropically with the views that you currently espouse. I am fast approaching 70 years of age and speak as someone who is rather more advanced in years than you and who had nearly 45 years working experiences in the real world, of which 35 of those said years were at the level of the highest levels of Senior Management.
I understand what you're saying but my point is that the world of work that you're familiar with is completely different to mine, people my age are now more exploited then ever, all becuase of this neo-liberal agenda that was set in motion by Thatcher and made worse by Blair and Cameron. My dad was telling me when he was my age, he could walk into a part time job in a shop without needing a CV or to fill out taxing questionnaires on customer service. Becuase after all that type of job shouldn't require such measures but because the employer has too
much power, it's allowed this over-competition for crap retail jobs.
I would love to set up an organisation that's fairer to workers but where do I get the money to start such a venture?
much power, it's allowed this over-competition for crap retail jobs.
I would love to set up an organisation that's fairer to workers but where do I get the money to start such a venture?
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
That, as they say, is indeed the question, but there are those who did set up what are now large enterprises, who did ask the same question. It is finding the answer to it that is the next stage onwards.
Incidentally, did you once have a "Balamory" connection as your avatar on this website a long time ago ?
Being an impoverished student I can't see how to make money to do that, but maybe once education has finished I may find a way lol.
Oh yes my Balamory avatar, with the menacing grinning lady, I'm not too sure why I changed it.
Butts
Veteran Member
I do agree with you with regard to this aspect of modern employment procedures. Basically it's all bull**** coupled with the implementation of modern technology and expanding HR departments and guru's making themselves feel self-important.
The same can be said of Mission Statements. No one really believes in them, not even I suspect the authors.
That faceless institution enabled you to buy a house.... I'm not sure whether that should really be a criticism levied at the banks...or at house ownership and the lack of supply/high house prices in the UK? You could always rent
Unfortunately renting is another con. My primary objection is that one is forced to shell out four times the cost if the house itself.
SS4
Established Member
We also have to contend with bull**** online applications designed to weed out applicants for not using the right keywords or the right balance of answers to questions there is often no single right answer to. All without a human being ever looking at it
As a parent of three 20-somethings, I sympathise. How has this happened? Well, it's certainly not
Sentences like that help no one, because they ignore context, causation and, indeed, history. Like it or not, Thatcher is largely irrelevant today, except in the minds of those poor souls who hate today and want someone to blame. We are where we are.
In your dad's day (I presume he is a little younger than me) there were 16-year old school leavers, who went into the simplest jobs, 18-year olds, who took the next tranche up, and graduates, who took the jobs requiring most entry-level skills. Three distinct groups, of which only the last needed sorting out by qualification. Simple. These days, though the three levels still exist, there are post-A-level kids who should have left two years earlier, and a plethora of "graduates" in IT, Hairdressing, Maths, Media, French, Engineering, some of whom have genuine graduate skills and training, but others who have simply spent three years at "Uni". Some of these are still best suited to the basic jobs, others, of course, to the high-qualification ones. Faced with a tangle like this, the simple task of recruitment your dad faced is impossible. "When everyone is somebody, then no one is anybody". Nothing to do with "neo-liberalism", just the unforeseen consequences of expanding education without assessing teh requirements first.
OK. First put together a business plan. If this is robust, take it to your local Job Centre, where they have advisers for people wishing to do this, who can help refine it. Then go to a bank - yes, if it is a good organisation with a good foundation they will lend even to you! If you need start-up funds, try crowd-sourcing - it works. The basic rule is know what it is exactly you are trying to do, show that you are realistic in what it takes - and ask for it.
SWTH
Member
Fag packet maths:
A basic wage of £7p/h x 40hrs = £280 p/w x 52 = £14,560 p/a
The current number of people of working age (16-65) living in the UK is around 41,000,000, x £14,560 = £596,960,000,000.
Benefits spending has been set at £120,000,000,000. Where do you propose to find the balance of £476,960,000,000?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Most of which would go to people not needing it, at least until employers cut wages to make up the difference. And the payment would have to be funded by taxing the very same people who are receiving it.
Thatcher and Blair were only prime ministers of the UK. Contrary to popular belief, there is life outside the UK. Thanks to Freedom of Movement, it is possible to move to places that are not only have better standards of living and better public services, but also have a work culture that would be more appealing to our young friend here. But I would get a move on as there are many people in the UK who want to prevent our young people finding a better life abroad.
Why should our young people have to go abroad to find a better life ? It seems like a state of abject surrender to give up on trying to improve our own country.
Plus, the ale's better over here.
The UK is a lost cause. The main reason is because the UK is insular and is not prepared to look at what works outside the UK. For example, no country would have bus deregulation if they would bother to take note of what is possible in neighbouring countries.
People only have one life and staying in the UK to try and save it is a big risk if it doesn't pay off.
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