Should Hazel Grove to Stockport still be electrified?

[dannypye9999]

Is there any point in this route being electrified when there are no electric trains running on it? And are these wires left switched on and burning valuable money that could be used elsewhere. No electric trains have ran on this route for six years now, so I dread to think how much this has cost in electricity bills.

 

[DXMachina]

how much this has cost in electricity bills.

£0.00

Electricity only costs as it is consumed - not withstanding maintenance costs which may exist, or resistive losses if power flows through this section to others where it is used - in which case it does a useful job

 

[londonmidland]

According to Wikipedia, there is one return EMU service in the evening.

 

[Tomnick]

Does it really cost that much to keep a relatively short section livened? In any case, quickly looking through a line-up for next week, at least this train appears to be timed for electric traction.

 

[GB]

Is there any point in this route being electrified when there are no electric trains running on it? And are these wires left switched on and burning valuable money that could be used elsewhere. No electric trains have ran on this route for six years now, so I dread to think how much this has cost in electricity bills.

Probably costs a lot less to keep it live than to either take it down or replace it when it gets stolen!

 

[Elecman]

will cost some money in leakage losses through the insulators

 

[AndyW33]

Presumably services such as Hazel Grove - Preston will be using these wires in 2 years time, assuming the timetable isn't completely recast. Probably cheaper to keep the wires live than pay to decommission the equipment, modify arrangements at the Stockport end, and then reinstate it in 2016, and as GB suggests, live 25kv is an excellent way of either deterring or permanently eliminating cable thieves.

 

[Ploughman]

How many Electric services have ever drawn current from the OHLE South of Colton Jcn on the Leeds lines?
They are still live though.

 

[edwin_m]

How many Electric services have ever drawn current from the OHLE South of Colton Jcn on the Leeds lines?
They are still live though.

Where a non-electified route diverges at a junction it's normal practice to electrify the whole junction and a bit beyond. As well as reducing the disruption if the other route is electrified later (as will happen at Colton) this makes it more likely that a misrouted train will be able to stop or at least drop the pan before going off the wire. The last factor is particularly important at Colton as it is 125mph over both routes and the signalling rules at the time of electrification wouldn't give the driver any indication of routeing until the junction signal came into sight (this may have been changed since).

 

[Thomas6187]

The 19:22 Piccadilly-Hazel Grove, which is currently formed by a 323, will stop running come the May timetable change as it will start at Preston

 

[Stuwhu]

Did anyone else look at the title of the thread and think "it already is!"

 

[Manchester77]

Did anyone else look at the title of the thread and think "it already is!"

Haha glad it wasn't just me!

Surely also the wires being there future proofs the line, since I'd imagine that if Hazel Grove - Preston wasn't already electric we may have seen it cut back at Piccadilly to save on the DMUs

 

[ianhr]

I think GMPTE paid for this originally. I wonder if they thought about asking for their money back when Northern decided to operate it with DMUs?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

£0.00

Electricity only costs as it is consumed - not withstanding maintenance costs which may exist, or resistive losses if power flows through this section to others where it is used - in which case it does a useful job

Exactly - unless current is used/drawn by a train it is not getting consumed.

 

[Boysteve]

I think GMPTE paid for this originally. I wonder if they thought about asking for their money back when Northern decided to operate it with DMUs?

But Northern do not have enough EMU's. So if EMU's returned to Hazel Grove there would be more diesels to other electrified destination!

 

[richardio123]

It says on Wiki that EMUs were removed from the hazel grove line to add an extra hourly service between MAN and MIA.. how long ago was this ?

 

[Starmill]

I assume it was back when TPE stopped offering 1 train per hour stopping (at least TOWARDS Manchester Airport) all day? Northern never used to run the MAN - MIA shuttle, so that takes an extra train now to what it did back then.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When did the Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport services that pass through Hazel Grove station start running ?

 

[CJ]

It says on Wiki that EMUs were removed from the hazel grove line to add an extra hourly service between MAN and MIA.. how long ago was this ?

It was when the new platform (Platform 1 ) at the Airport was opened back in 2008.

The introduction of the new platform allowed the majority of the Cleethorpes - Manchester Airport services to stop calling at all stations between Piccadilly and the Airport, which introduced a new hourly Piccadilly - Airport service using the 323s moved from the Hazel Grove shuttles.

 

[kermit]

Every mile of electrified line is another mile towards the inevitable goal of a fully electrified railway. Wires will go to Buxton, it's just a matter of when.

 

[thealexweb]

From the December 2016 timetable revision the Preston to Hazel Grove service will go over to an EMU so its a temporary problem.

 

[Chapeltom]

Every mile of electrified line is another mile towards the inevitable goal of a fully electrified railway. Wires will go to Buxton, it's just a matter of when.

I'd love to see the Buxton Line electrified, it would make it a much smoother run from Manchester Picc back to stations down our end, it does feel like a bit of a drag. I would be a little bit worried it may ruin the beautiful landscape we have around here, although having said that, you can't see the line that well from local hills in many places. My other concern would be how you actually access the line in places, certainly the majority of the route from Buxton to Whaley Bridge is well away from roads. Some parts are quite secluded.

 

[tom1649]

The wires to Hazel Grove will also be useful if/when the Hope Valley is electrified.

 

[Chapeltom]

The wires to Hazel Grove will also be useful if/when the Hope Valley is electrified.

It would be excellent to see the HVL wired at some point - from a railway point of view as it would speed up Trans Pennine journey times a bit. However even as regular user of the HVL, I'd quite happily keep the pacers for a while longer as wires would be a bit of a blot on the absolutely stunning Edale Valley. The views from Mam Tor/Lord's Seat are simply mesmerizing on a summers day, wires would slightly 'ruin' the view.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Pacers are already a blot on the landscape

 

[snowball]

However even as regular user of the HVL, I'd quite happily keep the pacers for a while longer as wires would be a bit of a blot on the absolutely stunning Edale Valley.

You'd better tell NR as Hope Valley is one of the eight lines in the north that were listed in December as being under study to decide where to electrify next.

 

[dannypye9999]

From the December 2016 timetable revision the Preston to Hazel Grove service will go over to an EMU so its a temporary problem.

What kind of EMU stock will they be using?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Don't personally find OHLE a blot on the landscape, certainly isn't in Northumbria and Lakes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Don't personally find OHLE a blot on the landscape, certainly isn't in Northumbria and Lakes.

Catenaries

I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er hills and vales
When all at once I saw a crowd
A host, of Network Rail catenaries

With apologies to William Wordsworth

 

[northwichcat]

I think GMPTE paid for this originally. I wonder if they thought about asking for their money back when Northern decided to operate it with DMUs?

It was electrified in 1981 and the regular electric services stopped in 2008 so maybe GMPTE had their money's worth already?

There's 2 reasons why Hazel Grove doesn't get regular electric services:
1. An insufficient number of EMUs in the Northern fleet following the December 2008 timetable changes involving Manchester Airport and Stoke.
2. Poor reliability on Buxton to Blackpool services pre-December 2008. If Buxton isn't a viable option the only alternative 'South Manchester' non-electrified destination is Chester which may have created even more reliability issues than Buxton.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From the December 2016 timetable revision the Preston to Hazel Grove service will go over to an EMU so its a temporary problem.

What kind of EMU stock will they be using?

No stock has been earmarked for Hazel Grove to Preston because the long term future of that service hasn't been confirmed. Under the Northern Hub extending Hazel Grove services to one of Buxton, Chinley or Sheffield is under consideration. That doesn't mean that the Alderley Edge-Stockport-Manchester* service can't continue to Preston via Bolton once Deansgate to Leyland is electrified opposed to running a diesel service to beyond Hazel Grove from Preston.

* 319s are considered to have inferior acceleration to 323s and have been deemed unsuitable for Stoke and Crewe services without first re-engineering the trains.