Latest Which? passenger satisfaction survey released

[hassaanhc]

Today has seen the release of the latest passenger survey from Which?. Almost all London area Commuter TOCs are near the bottom, more on it here:

Rail report signals failure: Lack of seats, poor value for money and dirty toilets leave travellers dissatisfied.

Meanwhile Southeastern have gone on the attack, saying they're at the bottom because they take "people somewhere they don’t want to be with money they don’t want to pay" (i.e the office) and "It likened passengers’ reluctance to pay season ticket charges as being ‘on a par with water rates'" :P. Not a user of Southeastern so not sure how their services actually are.

 

[cuccir]

Perhaps the fact that Southern staff presume everybody hates work tells us something about their own relationships with their jobs, and the resultant quality of service!

In all honesty thought, the discrepancy between Which? and ATOC's own surveys shows how unreliable such surveys are. Yes Minister shows us how it's done.

 

[TheEdge]

Personally I'd be interested to know GA would look if it were split into being surveyed as what used to be FGE and Anglia. Same goes with FGW, I'd be interested to see how their results for the West of England services are when taken separately from London suburban.

I also agree with Southeastern, commuters do always seem to be in a bad mood and like to make as much of a fuss as possible about everything.

 

[SGS]

The Telegraph has a report on this (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...639705/Passengers-attack-train-standards.html). This bit made me snigger:

When asked what would improve their journeys, six in ten passengers named higher ticket prices

This proves beyond doubt that the TOCs have made strenuous efforts to improve journeys for passengers.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I did love SouthEastern's comments: "you don't want to go to the office and don't want to pay to get there". It can't have anything to do with the fact that the staff on HighSpeed are obstreperous and the "classic" lines have been slowed down to the point of uselessness.

It can't have anything to do with being a commuter service: Chiltern and London Overground both score very highly indeed, and the commuters from Buckinghamshire tend to be even more demanding that those from Kent.

I also love the way Which scores are significantly lower than Passenger Focus. It's amazing what happens when you ask for your "overall perception" rather than limiting the question to "the journey you've just taken", as Passenger Focus do. The National Passenger Survey is designed to get the answers that ATOC want, asking about overall perceptions is far more realistic. I know this from my previous commute from Newcastle to Durham; the XC train I took was normally late, dirty and overcrowded but the one day the Passenger Focus questioners were on board it miraculously wasn't.

I see ATOC are going on the attack about methodology, but it's the same methodology Which use for all other commercial sectors. You don't see such shocking results elsewhere, not even with mobile phone companies.

 

[IanXC]

Just the same old flawed survey from Which? How they think their methodology, and sample size, is even comparable to the National Passenger Survey I'll never know.

If you ask people for their 'general perception' of X TOC's whatever, you are of course going to get a result which is skewed by media reports, hearsay and conjecture. That's why NPS' 'on the journey you have just undertaken' methodology is far superior.

 

[TheEdge]

Does anyone have access to the sample size? The telegraph one is broken and there is a quote in the Metro from an AGA spokesman is the Which sample is 507 against a Passenger Focus of 2,200.

 

[IanXC]

Does anyone have access to the sample size? The telegraph one is broken and there is a quote in the Metro from an AGA spokesman is the Which sample is 507 against a Passenger Focus of 2,200.

I don't have the precise figures but Which is circa 7000 this time, as against NPS at circa 30,000.

 

[Polarbear]

To be honest, this story gave me a laugh when I was on my way to work this morning!

I think South Eastern may be on shaky ground with their "defence". Merseyrail carry quite a few commuters too & look where they are in the table...

 

[YorkshireBear]

To be honest, this story gave me a laugh when I was on my way to work this morning!

I think South Eastern may be on shaky ground with their "defence". Merseyrail carry quite a few commuters too & look where they are in the table...

Many of those don't pay though

 

[Tibbs]

Just the same old flawed survey from Which? How they think their methodology, and sample size, is even comparable to the National Passenger Survey I'll never know.

If you ask people for their 'general perception' of X TOC's whatever, you are of course going to get a result which is skewed by media reports, hearsay and conjecture. That's why NPS' 'on the journey you have just undertaken' methodology is far superior.

Are the TOCs aware of when the NPS people will be out on their patch?

 

[broadgage]

In my view, the surveys carried by the railway industry are very cleverly designed in order to get a positive result.

Here are a few questions that are unlikely to appear in an industry survey.

1) Do feel that the trains are long enough for the numbers travelling ?
2) Do normally you find sufficient leg room
3) Was there room for your luggage without it blocking the gangway.
4) Was the on board catering offer suitable for the length of journey.

Instead questions tend to focus on the the particular journey often on a train that one suspects is longer, cleaner, and better staffed than is the norm.

 

[racyrich]

And there is no way of asking the people who've abandoned the train as a form of transport completely. As several former South Eastern commuters here at work have. They come in from Maidstone area by coach now.

 

[TheEdge]

1) Do feel that the trains are long enough for the numbers travelling ?
2) Do normally you find sufficient leg room
3) Was there room for your luggage without it blocking the gangway.
4) Was the on board catering offer suitable for the length of journey.

Well lets look at the NPS breakdown related to your points above.

1) Sufficient room for all passengers to sit/stand.
2) The comfort of the seating area
3) The space for luggage

Admittedly there isn't one about catering.

Still, they clearly do ask those questions and do get answers.

 

[DarloRich]

strange how the majority of the poorly performing TOCs are those with the most intensively worked commuter routes - could it be that people don’t really like going to their work and transfer their unhappiness onto something else?

 

[PG]

Look back a couple of months and this article in the Telegraph reports that our railway system is the second best (out of 26) in Europe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...8441/British-trains-among-best-in-Europe.html

The UK outscored its major rivals with an overall satisfaction score of 78 per cent compared with 74 per cent for France and Belgium, 51 per cent for Germany and a dismal 39 per cent for Italy.

The survey of 26,000 passengers across 26 EU countries placed the UK second overall, ahead of all other major networks on the continent and eclipsed only by Finland which has a much smaller rail infrastructure.

 

[bicbasher]

Ah, Southeastern. The TOC where unless you commute from Tunbridge Wells or use the high speed services get a service which is slow and expensive.

Metro services are ok until 7pm when they reduce to 2tph and the Victoria to Dartford line effectively closes at 8pm.

Obviously issues on the Hastings line are beyond Southeastern's control, yet I'd say the majority of passengers who have no choice but to commute with them have genuine reasons to feel aggrieved with them and the fact the coach companies which provide drop off points at Canary Wharf and Central London from Kent are doing a roaring trade.

 

[DarloRich]

EDIT - i didnt know that SE had actually used my suggestion as an excuse!

 

[Bayum]

Surveys are one of those methodologies where you will generally run into some backlash as to how the statistics were gathered.

If one focus group hadn't asked about 'overall satisfaction' and the other hadn't, you'd only get people arguing that an overall view of the railway is missing if you only looked at 'last journey made'.

 

[Rheilfordd]

I'm really surprised Greater Anglia scored so highly. Now in my 30th year of travelling with them and in my opinion the service has never been so bad.

Extremely unhelpful and surly staff in the main (though there are rare exceptions)

Why do they charge so much more for the equivalent trip on the C2C line when travelling on the Southend branch ?

Their "service" and daily torture is one of the main reasons I'm off to Dubai to work at the end of this month. Don't think there's much danger of anyone thrusting a survey form my way out there either...

 

[Hellfire]

That's why NPS' 'on the journey you have just undertaken' methodology is far superior.

I don't understand this idea that asking people about the journey they have just undertaken is sound. The passenger in question may have had the journey from hell on a TOC which normally gives him/her a decent service. Conversely he/she may have had the first decent trip in weeks of appalling service.

In either case the result of the survey does not give a true perspective.

 

[maniacmartin]

The last time I filled in a NPS survey, there was no way to convey the actual problems I faced. If your problem doesn't fit in one of their categories of things they ask about, they assume you are satisfied!

 

[badassunicorn]

I don't get how people are "forced" to use a service or "have no alternative". There clearly are alternatives, and if you want to live outside of London and benefit from cheaper living costs and housing prices then obviously you are going to have to commute to keep your job. I used to live a 10 minute bus journey from my place of work, but moved 20 miles out form it in order to not live in grotty East London anymore, and to live in a nice flat for my money. The 40 mile round trip drive or train journey is acceptable to me, in order that my time spent not at work is more pleasant. In my view, whether it takes me 10 minutes or an hour to get into work, that day which I am working is written off anyway as a work day. My rest days are not spent travelling and I benefit from not living in London

 

[aylesbury]

Trains ,toilets are grubby because of the way people treat them and staff are only there to be shouted at.Which always comes up with a bad press for rail so take this report with a pinch of salt.

 

[cuccir]

I don't understand this idea that asking people about the journey they have just undertaken is sound. The passenger in question may have had the journey from hell on a TOC which normally gives him/her a decent service. Conversely he/she may have had the first decent trip in weeks of appalling service.

In either case the result of the survey does not give a true perspective.

But the results of each journey are only taken as one data point in a sample size of 30,000. With a sufficiently large sample size, these inaccuracies equal themselves out to give what should be a statistically accurate sample. This is called the Law of Large Numbers.

Try a test - I'm about to a toss a 10p piece ten times. My score is (H=Heads, T=Tails): H,H,H,T,T,H,H,T,T,H. With an insufficient sample size, we could conclude that 60% of coin tosses are 'heads' (and if I'd stopped after 3, the score would be 100%). This wouldn't give a true perspective. However, if all 23,312 of the registered members of RailUK gave results for 10 coin tosses, I can guarantee* you that from the sample size of 233,120, we'd get a result which was very very close to 50/50.

So, it doesn't matter that each coin toss (or journey) will give one result which might not reflect in and of itself an accurate picture, so long as sufficient tosses (journeys) are counted.

Of course, if you ask flawed/biased questions, then your data may still be dodgy even if your sample size is suitably big.

* Well, as close to guarantee as is possible in statistics!

 

[trainophile]

I wonder how much higher Northern would have come if they had decent trains.

Pleased about Merseyrail, although I don't think they are comparable with TOCs providing long-distance travel. They don't have toilets to worry about being dirty, for one thing.

 

[SF-02]

strange how the majority of the poorly performing TOCs are those with the most intensively worked commuter routes - could it be that people don’t really like going to their work and transfer their unhappiness onto something else?

For some yes, but c2c do well here and also in punctuality figures.

Southeastern being last is no surprise to me. Whilst no doubt that many issues are down to network rail, southeastern don't help themselves with staffing and communication issues.

Some issues seem to be a mix of government and SE, such as short formed trains. SE don't have enough stock which may not be their fault but the DfT, but poor reliability of what they do have may well be. It would help if they communicated to passengers what the issues are. Their state owned predecessor was so much better at doing that on the website. An article here and there about ongoing issues and plans would be nice. Sure, 90% of the public wouldn't read it but is that a reason not to try and inform people? It would be good PR and gain some goodwill from some.

Last Friday was a case in point - storms causing problems and a train catching fire at Woolwich. Why? They havn't said. Did it run over something blown down or was it a train issue as it happened when the train was stationary? The line was shut for 3 hours - no staff on trains of course being Driver only operated, no staff on the vast majority of stations after 8pm, and little information. Twitter staff knocked off despite this and other closures - the only London TOC to do so.

Pre-2006 an article may have appeared stating what was the cause, what is being done, and if the train will be out of service. Also addressing any communication faults and what they would do about it. Now its a wall of silence on every issue so the passenger never feels informed or aware of what, if any changes, may be happening. Or that southeastern have even acknowledge issues.
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The last time I filled in a NPS survey, there was no way to convey the actual problems I faced. If your problem doesn't fit in one of their categories of things they ask about, they assume you are satisfied!

Yes I would agree with that. Plus I only got forms on quiet trains or off peak. Only peak time was on the old Southern service now taken over by London overground from Denmark Hill . That was peak time but on a service where I always got a seat at rush hour. If they attempted it on the southeastern service they would never have got further than the vestible on the packed out inadequate 4 or 6 car train.

Other times were mid-day on southeastern and London Midland, and mid morning on FGW.

Never rush hour on busy trains. Never seen them handed out at stations at those time or trains.

 

[jon0844]

Don't think there's much danger of anyone thrusting a survey form my way out there either...

If they do, I wouldn't be too negative!

 

[EM2]

... but c2c do well here and also in punctuality figures.

c2c have an almost-new fleet, and a network that's very short in terms of route miles and has little interaction with other operators.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Personally I don't think Southern do too badly, although as I am on the Uckfield Line I might be biased. On the Uckfield Line they have improved the service dramatically over their years of running the franchise, introduced new trains, later trains, earlier trains, direct trains etc, and the outcome has been a dramatic increase in use, to such an extent the peak hour trains are standing room only.

Its somewhat ironic if they then lose out on passenger satisfaction because the trains that they have improved so much are standing room only. There's not really a lot they can do about that either because they just can't go out and buy more rolling stock.

Certainly on the London commuting routes is it fair to say that the companies that do well don't share many of their routes with other TOCs? Chilterns, LOROL etc and therefore are not perhaps subject to as many issues out of their control?

Equally I guess one should also look at not only the cost of the tickets on the TOC but also the cost of operating to the taxpayer. After all does it matter if all the passengers are unhappy if the service is being run without subsidy? Or is it possible that those where the passengers are happiest are the most heavily subsidised?