Weather related disruption - Christmas 2013 and New Year 2014

[Peter Mugridge]

6 weeks to repair that sea wall is incredibly optimistic - it took that long to repair the landslide at Ockley !!

If it's been washed away in several locations - then 6 months might be a good estimate, the area must be hoping it can be rebuilt by the Summer though - as tourism is viral for the SW.

Talking about hopelessly optimistic, did anyone see the tweet from FGW that the BBC reported at 07.20 this morning in the "Live UK Storm" column?

First Great Western Trains tweets: "Due to the weather no trains are running between Penzance and Exeter. This will be at least until later this morning."

That's here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26044283 but you'll have to scroll a long way down to find it! Screenshot, please, someone!

This was, of course, tweeted some hours after reports of the wall collapsing had been widely circulated...

 

[Rapidash]

Well, a commute that would normally takes me an hour or so took 4 hours today on the buses. Not entirely sure my sanity can deal with that for several months.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The area must be hoping it can be rebuilt by the Summer though - as tourism is viral for the SW.

Whilst the current sitution is fraught to say the least, I am sure that you did not mean to say what you did about tourism in the South-West, being viral, despite the influx of raucous young holidaymakers...:roll:

 

[Taunton]

I'm off Waterloo to Bournemouth tomorrow, and saw that SWT are restricted to 50 mph currently, so I just had a look on RealTimeTrains to see how they were doing. Surprised to find they were all stated as arriving in Bournemouth several minutes early. Looking at the "GBTT" times, they have all been rescheduled today, now arriving in Bournemouth 54 minutes later than what I regard as the GBTT timetable.

My question is this. Is this train regarded as grossly late, or on time, for the punctuality statistics?

 

[YorkshireBear]

There needs to be significant investment in this stretch of railway and as a temporary measure I would say that the Okehampton line could be opened to Cornwall - London bound trains. As someone who uses this line regularly, it's difficult to have imagined that a storm this big could have obliterated the wall as it has, but Dawlish has always been vulnerable.

There's also no doubt in my mind that the South west has been left behind in terms of rail infrastructure.

You do not temporarily spend 300 million plus on a route to Cornwall.... That would be a permanent solution if decided...

I think a more realistic proposition is a breakwater.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Which MP has blamed the money being spent on HS2 as being the reason not enough money has been spent on making sure the railway can cope with bad weather (in particular the coastal stretch along Dawlish)?

And the BBC reporter questioning why it could take six weeks - despite the BBC showing the photos which suggest it won't take six hours!

I think there is a major difference between maintaining the existing railway (be it flood /tidal battered or not) - and major strategic capacity investment. The answer is to restore the important GW line - (and others - Tonbridge - Hastings has had 6 landslides in 7 days) , whilst building a better railway. You will appreciate that well enough. HMG can authorise enough money if it wants to aid the SW (and other places , as it did on the Cumbrian Coast) - Dawlish I reckon needs better sea defences - though a good amount of investment on cliff defence and beach strengthening has been done - but not enough for this episodic event.

 

[dosxuk]

There needs to be significant investment in this stretch of railway and as a temporary measure I would say that the Okehampton line could be opened to Cornwall - London bound trains.

I would suggest asking the owner of this house about their opinion of your plan.

West Devon Borough Council might have a few choice words too.

There's also no doubt in my mind that the South west has been left behind in terms of rail infrastructure.

Many people all across the country would quite happily say the same thing about their region.

 

[swt_passenger]

My question is this. Is this train regarded as grossly late, or on time, for the punctuality statistics?

Punctuality and cancellations will be based on whatever the TOC uploads into the database overnight. That becomes the agreed day's timetable.

I believe that is one of the reasons why realtime trains defaults to not displaying the cancelled services, but only shows the amendments that would appear in journey planners and information systems...

 

[Class172]

Have there been many gay weddings in Dawlish?

http://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/74949748305/the-world-according-to-the-uk-independence-party

 

[D1009]

I think there is a major difference between maintaining the existing railway (be it flood /tidal battered or not) - and major strategic capacity investment. The answer is to restore the important GW line - (and others - Tonbridge - Hastings has had 6 landslides in 7 days) , whilst building a better railway. You will appreciate that well enough. HMG can authorise enough money if it wants to aid the SW (and other places , as it did on the Cumbrian Coast) - Dawlish I reckon needs better sea defences - though a good amount of investment on cliff defence and beach strengthening has been done - but not enough for this episodic event.

I believe someone made the point many posts ago that the sea wall is a vital part of the sea defences of Dawlish and will have to be repaired/strengthened irrespective of the needs of the railway.

 

[LateThanNever]

You do not temporarily spend 300 million plus on a route to Cornwall.... That would be a permanent solution if decided...

I think a more realistic proposition is a breakwater.

Possibly, but because of the strong currents in the Exe estuary there have been problems with creating sandbanks and loosing beaches in the area when the shore profiles are changed and this usually does not seem to coincide with what was anticipated.
But compared with loosing houses as well as the railway perhaps that could be a risk worth taking.

 

[patstonuk]

Possibly, but because of the strong currents in the Exe estuary there have been problems with creating sandbanks and loosing beaches in the area when the shore profiles are changed and this usually does not seem to coincide with what was anticipated.
But compared with loosing houses as well as the railway perhaps that could be a risk worth taking.

Construction of breakwaters and any other palliative measures tends to be fraught with imponderables as far as effects elsewhere are concerned.

Coastal defence is a poorly-understood technology, it seems. I live within shouting distance of the North Devon coast between Westward Ho! and Appledore and all the 'expertise' spouted over the last few years about 'managed retreat' has proved to be total garbage. The coast here, in common with flood prevention elsewhere, has proved to be an absolute shambles when the mumbo-jumbo is designed to avoid spending money on prevention. Prevention which has been effective for years as long as modest spending on maintenance has been maintained.
It's rather like the poor effort on road maintenance with which many will be familiar.

One last point if I may - 'loose' means 'poorly fitting' and 'lose' equates to 'lost'.

 

[Bedpan]

And now the dust begins to settle it becomes more a communication problem.

Why is the FGW Journeycheck website saying that disruption is expected until 7th February? It's obviously going to be longer, a fact illustrated by the item above that which tells you that all Night Riveria services are cancelled until 28th February.

Give people decent information and they are far more understanding.

As least I can understand what they are saying, even if it is clearly incorrect.

Part of the NRE advice on the other hand is totally confusing.;

First Great Western........

Thursday 6 and Friday 7 February

No trains are running between Exeter St Davids and Newton Abbot
........

A shuttle train service will run between Newton Abbot and Plymouth will run subject to the signalling being restored on this line overnight. So they should then replace the first "will" with "might"

Trains will run to their normal timetable between Plymouth and Penzance
........



CrossCountry

Trains will not run between Taunton and Penzance
An hourly direct bus service will run between Taunton and Plymouth
Passengers are advised not to to attempt travel beyond Taunton towards Penzance as replacement buses will not be provided.

.......

Alternative routes where tickets will be accepted

First Great Western and CrossCountry passengers may also use Stagecoach South West buses on reasonable routes
First Great Western and CrossCountry have mutual ticket acceptance between Exeter St Davids and Penzance....

So what it seems to be saying is that if I'm booked to go to Plymouth on a Cross Country train, I will be taken by bus from Taunton to Plymouth.

But if I want to go to Cornwall, does it mean that I won't be allowed to get on the bus despite the fact that FGW are running a full timetable from Plymouth to Penzance, and FGW and Cross Country tickets are interchangable.

Or, since Plymouth is "towards Penzance" maybe they are advising everybody not to attempt to get on the bus. (Maybe this is good advice if there's only one bus an hour, which means that they can only transport 50 odd people an hour).

Or, perhaps when they say that replacement buses will not be provided, they mean that if one of the hourly buses breaks down, it won't be replaced.

Cross Country's website says the same thing as above,
FGW's website says they are only running a limited service between Plymouth and Penzance, but there again they show "Major Disruption from Exeter to Newton Abbot rather than "Service Suspended".

If they said something along the lines of Please don't travel, but if you really must, we'll do our best to get you to your destination eventually, although there may be some very long delays, I'm sure people would understand - but the notices currently posted are bound to confuse and irritate people.

 

[SWTH]

Exactly. I'm having a very difficult time trying to work out my best option for travel tomorrow - Truro to Westbury and return. Having already booked and paid for tickets I'm now having to seriously consider using my car instead - depending on what is organised today of course.

 

[yorkie]

Please use this thread for weather related disruption excluding the Dawlish sea wall collapse.

• For discussion on alternative route proposals, please use Suggestions for Dawlish avoiding route
• For discussion on the impact of 'trapped' trains, please use Train sets trapped in Devon and Cornwall
• For discussion on the Dawlish sea wall collapse, please use Dawlish sea wall collapse

 

[Matt Taylor]

Current information from SWT is that no date is available for a possible reopening of the Botley line, they may well be waiting until after the weekend storm before having an idea as once the structural integrity of the track formation has been compromised there is a far higher risk of further damage.

 

[tsr]

Network Rail has extra staff & pumps on standby to reduce any flooding from the current band of rain which is inching its way over the Southern operating area (fortunately this is also gradually weakening). Nevertheless, I can see the waterlogged ground and extra rain may well cause short-notice problems in cuttings, etc.

 

[hassaanhc]

Currently on SWT to Waterloo from Hounslow, there were a couple of small trees on the embankment near Chiswick that had fallen away from the line (towards the path running alongside) while next to Barnes there was a pile of branches that appeared to be quite freshly cut.

 

[sonic2009]

Anybody know why trains aren't running between Castle Cary & Taunton?

 

[Zoidberg]

Anybody know why trains aren't running between Castle Cary & Taunton?

Due to planned engineering works in Whiteball Tunnel according to http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/60433.aspx

Engineering work is taking place between Taunton and Exeter St Davids from Saturday 18 January to Sunday 9 February, closing all lines.

Network Rail will be carrying out essential works in Whiteball Tunnel between Taunton and Exeter. The works are needed to prevent further deterioration of the 170 year old tunnel that may impact on train services. While the tunnel is closed, they will use the opportunity to carry out major track renewal work to improve resilience and reduce the risk of delays to services and also drainage works, which form part of a wider programme to reduce flood risks caused by extreme weather. ...

Buses replace trains between Taunton, Tiverton Parkway and Exeter St Davids with some buses running between Castle Cary and Taunton.

 

[Zoe]

Due to planned engineering works in Whiteball Tunnel according to http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/60433.aspx

That's between Taunton and Exeter though, there were still planned to be some trains from Taunton to London via Castle Cary. FGW journey check says that the lines between Castle Cary and Taunton are closed due to flooding. http://www.journeycheck.com/firstgreatwestern

Owing to flooding between Taunton and Castle Cary all lines are closed.

 

[sonic2009]

Thanks Zoe, it appears that some services are running only as far as Bedwyn, well that's what realtimetrains says. So i wondered if it was 166s running down to Castle Cary.

 

[D1009]

When I went down yesterday, the floodwater was up to the ballast on both sides of the line between Bridgwater and Cogload, though trains were still running at 100 mph. The same area of floodwater also affects the line between Athelney and Cogload, so it looks as though it has now covered the rails there. Taunton could be cut off the rail system if it gets any worse.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Thanks Zoe, it appears that some services are running only as far as Bedwyn, well that's what realtimetrains says. So i wondered if it was 166s running down to Castle Cary.

Nope. Only as far as Bedwyn. Crew are currently doing refreshes for the route and traction for things like Glastonbury again, but there will be no extensions at this stage. Taunton to Castle Cary is currently closed due to flooding at Athelney.

 

[user15681]

50mph speed restriction on select routes for SE tonight. Mainly long distance Mainline routes to Ramsgate and Dover Priory from Victoria/Charing Cross via Swanley, Ashford or Maidstone East.

 

[PHILIPE]

That's between Taunton and Exeter though, there were still planned to be some trains from Taunton to London via Castle Cary. FGW journey check says that the lines between Castle Cary and Taunton are closed due to flooding. http://www.journeycheck.com/firstgreatwestern

Running via Bristol T.M., although the 19 41 ex Paddington terminating Castle Cary

 

[Matt Taylor]

SWT saying that Botley will be closed until at least the end of the month, not sure if that's an estimation or whether they expect a service to run on March 1st.

 

[D1009]

Interesting that timescale isn't much less than Network Rail are suggesting for restoration of service at Dawlish, even though the photo on SWT's website appears to indicate a somewhat lesser problem. Of course the difference is the relative importance of the routes.

 

[ModernRailways]

Interesting that timescale isn't much less than Network Rail are suggesting for restoration of service at Dawlish, even though the photo on SWT's website appears to indicate a somewhat lesser problem. Of course the difference is the relative importance of the routes.

The sea wall at Dawlish would probably be relatively easy tbh. It needs the wall to be rebuilt so it's more a case of waiting for the parts to be built and delivered, then put in place. Whereas the other case seems to need more actual man hours to be done. At least that's how I view it. Concrete slabs could be put in for the sea wall and be delivered by rail and then put in place by rail. I suspect a lot of the time at Dawlish will also be assessment of the rest of the wall as it will be severely weaker now I would imagine, which is probably why this time it's getting worse as flood defences have been taking quite a beating and so are weaker and there just aren't enough people to maintain them.

 

[Taunton]

Taunton to Castle Cary is currently closed due to flooding at Athelney.

Likely between Langport and Athelney where it bridges and then runs alongside the River Parrett. But back in the 1950s and early 1960s when the branch down to Yeovil was still open, Langport West station, just off the main line, was flooded and services suspended for a few days most winters, to the extent that swans swam through between the platforms. Took me just a few seconds to find pictures of it on the web. It's nothing new there.

https://sites.google.com/site/langportheritage/railway-s-1