Weather related disruption - Christmas 2013 and New Year 2014

[LNW-GW Joint]

Virgin advice has changed.
Normal service from Euston to 1500, then speed restrictions Euston-Birmingham/Nuneaton with frequency reduced BHM/MAN.
Nothing about further north or Scotland.
This is materially different to what they said last night.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Whilst a reduced and slower service is annoying for passengers it has to be a lot better than no service! If the train companies were to send out the standard service travelling at the usual speed they would end up with several services ploughing at speed into trees and other debris.

This is likely to block a line for a couple of hours, or potentially longer, may cause injuries to staff and/or passengers, and potentially damage the train, which then has to be taken out the service (potentially along with what ever train recovers it).

It therefore makes sense to run fewer trains slower so that damage and injuries are not caused and effectively maintaining some service rather than none.

 

[Dolive22]

Getting the message through to commuters on a Sunday isn't easy. One regular Thameslink commuter found out about 11 last night because I saw a message at the station coming home from visiting him.

Presumably he isn't signed up for service updates. Sometimes us commuters just will not help ourselves.

 

[dk1]

Getting the message through to commuters on a Sunday isn't easy. One regular Thameslink commuter found out about 11 last night because I saw a message at the station coming home from visiting him.

Presumably he isn't signed up for service updates. Sometimes us commuters just will not help ourselves.

He must live in a cave.

 

[Jonny]

The worst situation is the ECML north of York earlier this year; the only reason for disruption on that part of the ECML (other parts had other issues) is that the EC Electrics (i.e. Class 91s) had to be limited to 80mph to avoid bringing the wires down, and most of the other disruption on that part of the ECML was due to a reluctance to put them into 'the loop' so that other trains (diesel) could pass.

 

[DJL]

He must live in a cave.

To be fair I didn't know until my sister told me late last night.

Not having a TV I don't tend to get advanced warning about bad weather.
Although saying that I did use the train twice on Saturday and there was no announcement that I noticed then.

 

[Cletus]

The Dawlish webcam is exciting viewing today!

 

[1e10]

The Dawlish webcam is exciting viewing today!

Poor thing is on a bit of a slant today

 

[jon0844]

I'm in Sweden right now so my only concern is that our house is still standing when I get home, but even I know about the problems!

I would say, however, that I'm signed up for alerts with FCC and haven't actually had any emails or texts. So, perhaps some commuters would have some excuse (albeit not much!).

 

[Taunton]

A lot of the national goodwill towards rail travel is that it is seen as a form of reliable fall-back, in no small part because it did once actually provide this, when roads were icy the train was seen as a valuable asset.

What has happened over the last generation is not only has this been lost, but has gone the other way, so rail is now happy to announce cancellations at the first sign of bad weather, to the extent that those who were going to take the train now "have to get the car out instead". Likewise air travel not only doesn't start turning people away 'just in case the aircraft ends up in the wrong place overnight', but carries on with best endeavours to handle it all.

This "don't care about the customers" attitude (for that is what it is) is eventually going to bite the rail industry back, it will be questioned why so much public subsidy is pumped into a transport form which is less reliable, gives up at the first drops of rain, and has staff and management with this attitude - a prime example being the semi-literate 'spokeswoman' from Passenger Focus giving a bland catalogue of what was being cancelled on national radio this morning. A 'Can-Do' attitude? No way, it seems.

 

[dannypye9999]

how is it you can go to Russia or Germany where the wind or snow will be three times extreme than it is here yet trains can run normally and can cope under all sorts of weather. But as soon as your over here and everythings cancelled before the storm hits or even when a few flakes of snow drops out from the sky it causes major mass delays.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Presumably he isn't signed up for service updates. Sometimes us commuters just will not help ourselves.

I used to be signed up for updates by email from SOuthern and it worked relatively well. They then decided to go over to the national system and it is awful. Not only that by the alerts expire and they provide a link to renew the alerts but I have never been able to get the link to work.

I therefore rely on Twitter, and in times of total meltdown my own intuition of what the best option is likely to be which usually works well.

 

[al78]

how is it you can go to Russia or Germany where the wind or snow will be three times extreme than it is here yet trains can run normally and can cope under all sorts of weather. But as soon as your over here and everythings cancelled before the storm hits or even when a few flakes of snow drops out from the sky it causes major mass delays.

Do Germany and Russia attempt to run rail services at the same density as the UK in winter conditions?

Are you sure that there are never any problems at all in these countries? Perhaps someone who has lived there may like to comment.

 

[ModernRailways]

how is it you can go to Russia or Germany where the wind or snow will be three times extreme than it is here yet trains can run normally and can cope under all sorts of weather. But as soon as your over here and everythings cancelled before the storm hits or even when a few flakes of snow drops out from the sky it causes major mass delays.

The fact is trains don't run normally. I believe part of the German High Speed line was severed for a good month or so because of the damage caused by the weather. Deutsche Bahn have loads of reduced service etc. when the weather gets bad, the difference is you don't hear about it unless you looked on the DB website.

Russia is a lot better built to handle bad weather, but I'm not too sure what they are like with bad weather.

 

[Taunton]

The fact is trains don't run normally.

I can assure you that in snow conditions the rail systems in Russia run to schedule the bulk of the time. In fact their reliability around the major cities in an easterly (from Siberia) blizzard is far better than on the WCML in good weather.

This with stock that is mostly 20+ years old, because not a lot has been replaced since the end of socialism.

 

[A-driver]

how is it you can go to Russia or Germany where the wind or snow will be three times extreme than it is here yet trains can run normally and can cope under all sorts of weather. But as soon as your over here and everythings cancelled before the storm hits or even when a few flakes of snow drops out from the sky it causes major mass delays.

Simple...they don't, it's a myth.

Countries which see lots of snow (eg Siberia in Russia) will have systems designed for such conditions. In the uk we have very extreme climates. Other similar areas of the world climate wise suffer similar problems. The leaf fall can be worse in places like Canada and Northern euroupe than it is in Britain. But when you have heavy winds predicted like today it is likely to cause problems and precautions must be taken. If trains run at full speed and bring miles of overhead lines down as they are swinging about too much in the wind we could see days of line closure. If they run an emergancy timetable at 50mph then there is far less chance of wires being damaged and so you may get a bad day or two of travel but no lasting damage continuing to disrupt trains once the weather has cleared up.

And the weather predicted for later today is certainly not usual British weather. Winds are expected to be far higher than normal. Plus with Xmas so close it is likely to be far buisier than normal even in good weather so precautions are taken to ensure people think before travelling and consider how essential their travel plans are. Even if they can get a few thousand people to reconsider travelling in today for that pre Xmas drink or last minute browse of the shops it will help should there be problems tonight.

But I'm afraid other countries don't plough on through such weather as you suggest. Plus of course few other countries see quite as congested networks as we do here. When you are using over 100% capacity of the lines to start with the smallest of Infastructure problems will have huge implications. If a tree brings the overheads down just north of Finsbury park station blocking 2 of the 3 northbound lines you immediately have hours and hours of delays and cancellations as this evening all 3 northbound lines are booked to be used pretty much to capacity there.

 

[DJL]

I can assure you that in snow conditions the rail systems in Russia run to schedule the bulk of the time. In fact their reliability around the major cities in an easterly (from Siberia) blizzard is far better than on the WCML in good weather.

This with stock that is mostly 20+ years old, because not a lot has been replaced since the end of socialism.

Some of our current stock was old when BR owned it.

And you didn't answer the question about intensity of service

 

[Monty]

Some of our current stock was old when BR owned it.

And you didn't answer the question about intensity of service

This, with the exception of perhaps their subways Russia's heavy rail network is no way as near intensively worked than our own. You can't compre the two.

 

[GodAtum]

I hope I'll be able to make it home for xmas, fingers crossed!

 

[infobleep]

Getting the message through to commuters on a Sunday isn't easy. One regular Thameslink commuter found out about 11 last night because I saw a message at the station coming home from visiting him.

Presumably he isn't signed up for service updates. Sometimes us commuters just will not help ourselves.

It can't hurt to put out station announcements on a Sunday.

I am signed up to alerts but I tend to rely on twitter and live departure boards online as in the case of last minute delays or cancellations, they get the information out quicker than the email I recieve.

Sent from my HUAWEI U8815 using Tapatalk

 

[Taunton]

This, with the exception of perhaps their subways Russia's heavy rail network is no way as near intensively worked than our own. You can't compre the two.

You are correct that the Russian Metros achieve intense working. The Circle Line in Moscow, the heaviest-used, has a headway of 90 seconds in the peaks, which is unvaryingly achieved. London please copy. Although the system is mainly in tunnel, the depots are out in the open.

But when you have intensity of working, just look at the main trunk routes. The Trans-Siberian runs at a 20-minute headway all day, both passenger and freight at equal speeds, over huge distances, trains running this far apart for days on end over thousands of kilometres. Moscow to St Petersburg, like London to Aberdeen, has about a dozen overnight passenger trains each way leaving between 9 pm and midnight.

Who said 'not as intense'?

 

[Dolive22]

He must live in a cave.

No, a detached house.

A family Sunday, walk, carol service, etc. It's easy to not watch the news all day.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

No, a detached house.

A family Sunday, walk, carol service, etc. It's easy to not watch the news all day.

Indeed!
And I consider time away from broadcast media is 'quality time'.

Anyway, I'll be taking a punt on the weather tomorrow for a trip to Edinburgh and back - wish me luck. The East Coast driver on my way home last night said he wasn't looking forward to today, but we didn't talk about as far ahead as tomorrow!

 

[ModernRailways]

I can assure you that in snow conditions the rail systems in Russia run to schedule the bulk of the time. In fact their reliability around the major cities in an easterly (from Siberia) blizzard is far better than on the WCML in good weather.

This with stock that is mostly 20+ years old, because not a lot has been replaced since the end of socialism.

I was talking about Germany for the first paragraph. Which is why I said 'Russia is a lot better built to handle bad weather, but I'm not too sure what they are like with bad weather.'

 

[GodAtum]

anyone else not able to make it back to their families for xmas?

 

[Taunton]

I see that GA have announced that there will be no trains from Liverpool Street to Stansted before 10 am on Christmas Eve.

This with large numbers booked to fly out from Stansted that morning on Christmas holidays. Presumably they are expected to get coaches or taxis out there (which will operate as normal I am sure).

Several thousand more let down, who will find out the hard way you can't rely on the train any more. Quite a number won't see the announcement and will just turn up at Liverpool Street.

 

[Searle]

My aunt was due into Euston at 1600, but instead got an earlier train because of Virgin lifting ticket restrictions, so she got in at 1300 instead. Her original train is now 50 minutes late, and we're sitting with a cup of coffee at home, feeling very smug.

I think they've made the best of a very bad situation!

That being said, Euston was horrific earlier, with the 1330 and 1343 to Glasgow being announced as the train from Edinburgh just arriving. Nearly caused absolute chaos with two huge crouds trying to pass through each other!

 

[TheJRB]

I see that GA have announced that there will be no trains from Liverpool Street to Stansted before 10 am on Christmas Eve.

This with large numbers booked to fly out from Stansted that morning on Christmas holidays. Presumably they are expected to get coaches or taxis out there (which will operate as normal I am sure).

Several thousand more let down, who will find out the hard way you can't rely on the train any more. Quite a number won't see the announcement and will just turn up at Liverpool Street.

Being "let down" by having to seek replacement road transport is a very small price to pay for ensuring the safety of thousands of passengers in such treacherous conditions. It never ceases to amaze me how silly (I'm being kind with that word) people are with severe weather conditions. If trains ran and one person died, would that be worth it? Seriously, some days you cannot travel and that's just the way it is. Nobody likes it but in this case it is to keep everybody safe, the number one priority, as it should be, for the railways.

 

[Saint66]

Train companies are handling today well IMO... We already have some trees down on lines, but the worst of the weather isn't due until midnight, so you can imagine how strong the winds are going to be later.

 

[A-driver]

Several thousand more let down, who will find out the hard way you can't rely on the train any more. Quite a number won't see the announcement and will just turn up at Liverpool Street.

Can't rely on the trains anymore?! For heavens sake, there is severe weather out there. Several lines have already had trees come down on the OHLE, infact both Thameslink and FCC branches of FCC are now suffering closures due to trees on the lines. As the storm intensifies tonight more trees and debris are likely to fall across power lines and rails so until trains can run in good visibility to ensure the thousands and thousands of miles of track around the country are clear of obstructions no trains can run can they...

Or would you prefer we just shoved thousands onto 100mph trains and, providing the OHLE is still even able to give power, let these trains plough straight into obstructions across the lines injuring and perhaps even killing hundreds the day before Xmas?! I mean come on, too many people on here are just being stupid now. They have been telling people since yesterday to alter plans and warned that trains may not start until late Xmas eve. There is absolutely nothing else they can do unless you have any bright ideas?

Sadly some people may not get away to where they are going this Xmas but I think people would prefer to spend Xmas day away from their families than either stranded int he middle of knowhere on a packed train disabled by blown down wires or in hospital with serious injuries caused by a train ploughing into a tree fallen on the line.