Which TOC has best and worst first class

[cambsy]

Which TOC has best and worst first class, taking account of service, food quality, environment and seating etc. Mainly travel on Virgin and find it to be good, free food and good service.

 

[ryan125hst]

Well, I've never travelled first class and haven't been on many TOC's, but from what I have seem online, London Midland must be a contender for the worst first class.

It consists of a few seats in the middle of the train separated by a door. The seats aren't much better than standard and there isn't even a trolley service or WiFi access!

 

[TheJRB]

Southeastern are surely the worst for First Class. On the Electrostars there are no dividing doors and the seats are the same as standard except fewer have tables. With the 465/9s the main difference from standard to first is that the latter has Electrostar seats! Then again I suppose the main point of travelling First Class on Southeastern is to better your chances of getting a seat in the peak.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Some of the FCC 319's dont have very good 1st class with single seats on their own facing the side! Not all of them seemed to have this though.

London Midland 350's. Waste of time, space and money. Exactly the same seats with a cloth thrown over the back . I think you only get a table and a socket

 

[tsr]

Southern's First Class on 377s is barely better than Southeastern's.

You get worse armrests and an antimacassar which may or may not be dirty - and on a seat which may in fact be sideways. The sideways seats don't have tables, as such. Some First Class areas have a door. Indeed, some of the table seats even have plug sockets.

There is a mythical free cup of tea or coffee on offer, should you be lucky enough to find a trolley service (or have one pass through). I have never heard of this actually being supplied, but I understand it may have happened in the days of lore.

I don't think things are really much better on 171s. The seats are slightly better and supposedly have a sort of reclining mechanism. However, I find Standard Class seats on both 377s and 171s perfectly comfortable (except some 3+2 seats on 377s).

On 455s and 456s, please note that you must design, pay for and build your own First Class section.

 

[A1]

pretty much any toc that is exclusively short trips from London has a poor first offering.


but greater Anglia and first capital connect are the worst in my books. absolutely pitiful.

 

[starrymarkb]

Was very impressed with First Class on a DB class 411 - very spacious and comfortable (mind you standard has reclining seats and adjustable headrests). Freebies are limited to sweeties, with at seat drink service for a fee.

For difference within the same TOC how about 450 vs 159 on SWT (450 has Electrostar seats in 1st, 159 has the same as First on EC or FGW HSTs)

 

[Southern313]

Free tea/coffee was regularly given out to first class pax on trains out of Bognor. Of course, trolleys now long gone!

 

[GatwickDepress]

London Midland's first class section gets bonus points for being placed slap-bang in the middle; exceedingly annoying for both standard ticket holders trying to find escape from playing Sardines during crush hour, and for the people in first class who - I would assume - would quite like some quiet.

I was surprised to find that Greater Anglia 315s even have a first class section when I caught one at Liverpool Street yesterday It looked so pitiful...

 

[306024]

I was surprised to find that Greater Anglia 315s even have a first class section when I caught one at Liverpool Street yesterday It looked so pitiful...

I'd be surprised too - they haven't. Guess you mean a 317, which would fit your description.

On GA the 379's are fine, the MkIII's are OK too, but the 321s and 317s simply reflect their age. 360s are hardly different to the rest of the train, but first class is all about having a better chance of getting a seat rather than anything else.

The best first class on a commuter train has to be the armchairs on the 442s. On the rest of Southern and Southeastern just put your own (clean) hankie on the back of the seat and create your own first class.

 

[HST Power]

East Coast get my vote for best.

For worst, whilst the First Class on the FCC 365s and 321s is more comfortable and spacious, the First Class on the 317s is criminal. No difference whatsoever, you don't even get tables!

I have started to ask if I think a service might be worked by a 317. They don't mind telling me either! If it is, I go Standard, otherwise, all my travel is First Class.

 

[tsr]

Free tea/coffee was regularly given out to first class pax on trains out of Bognor. Of course, trolleys now long gone!

Some other South Coast services do have trolleys, but their range of stuff is only good for snacks, which on a journey of multiple hours between London Victoria and somewhere like Southampton Central is not entirely satisfactory.

It is often observed by myself and others that First Class is either ignored by trollies, or simply walked through without a word spoken or a beverage offered.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I'd be surprised too - they haven't. Guess you mean a 317, which would fit your description.

On GA the 379's are fine, the MkIII's are OK too, but the 321s and 317s simply reflect their age. 360s are hardly different to the rest of the train, but first class is all about having a better chance of getting a seat rather than anything else.

The best first class on a commuter train has to be the armchairs on the 442s. On the rest of Southern and Southeastern just put your own (clean) hankie on the back of the seat and create your own first class.

Ah, quite right. Thank you.

 

[Lee_Again]

I think some people miss the point of First Class on commuter trains. I use FCC a lot and it's the availability of seats that's most important. During the off peak I agree it's a waste of money unless it's part of a longer ticket.

For the long distance operators I think that East Coast is the best. Virgin is a close second. The rest are ok. FWIW I always liked GNER for the simple reason you could pay for a decent meal. The offerings from all TOCs are never quite sufficient in the evenings. Please, let me choose between a snack or full meal.

Nearly all my train travel is in First and I have accumulated over 10, 000 reward points with East Coast. I travel all over the country and during peak times, often buying tickets the night before. I rarely pay much more than standard. I think it's excellent value.

 

[Ivo]

I've travelled in First Class on most long-distance operators that provide it, and also several shorter ones.

Among those I've been on, I think East Coast probably win, although they do have the unfair advantage of being my longest First Class run to date, which also probably won't be beaten any time soon because said journey is the longest non-XC run in the country. An honourable mention goes to CrossCountry, on which the step up to First on Voyagers is massive and even now the pricing on the Central Belt is unusually cheap, if not as cheap as the £1.70 when I did this route on an HST); a second goes to SWT whose provision on 458s is really quite remarkable for a suburban train, but then they have to compete with FGW on the Waterloo to Reading corridor so the effort needs to be better - and on my most recent experience, it was on a Standard ticket. A very special mention goes East Midlands Trains' provision on 222s, but that was more because I had enough tea to pay for pretty much the whole Advance from Sheffield to London - and that the "trolley dollies" were definitely the most attractice I've ever been served by on the railway

At the other end of the scale, the worst I have used, both for long-distance and short-distance, is by quite some margin Greater Anglia, although to be fair I am yet to use First Class on GA routes in the GA era. The First Class provision on their 321s is without a doubt the worst First Class I have used, and this is worsened by the poor attitudes of staff I have experienced whenever sitting in First Class (one told me my 1ST Advance ticket wasn't valid in First Class), and that available on the MkIIIs to Norwich is - or at least was in 2010 - nothing special either, with no complimentary items and no power sockets. I hope that this has improved in the GA era! A less than excellent mention also goes to London Midland and their 350s, but this is more because of (a) the location of their First Class facility and (b) the fact that I once cut my hand on the reclining mechanism...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As a rule I can't afford to travel 1st class, and only do so when there's an advance 1st available. I've found that VWC 1st class is pretty good, as was VXC on longer journeys (Preston-Taunton for example) but I'm not sure how it is now on Arriva. TPE is fine on 170s, less so on 185s which tend to be filled with standees anyway. By far the best 1st class though, was on GNERs 373 sets... Those were the days!

 

[mrcheek]

I cant really judge on price, since I generally do my First Class travelling on on All Line Rover!

But East Coast would probably win for me overall. Comfortable seats, with the choice of single or double seats, and a decent set of free food and drink without going over the top. They also have the best First Class lounges that Ive experienced so far, always an advantage if you happen to arrive early at the start of your journey.

Virgin would be as good if pendolino seats werent so uncomfortable, and if the people serving food and drink would actually leave you alone for five minutes.

First Great Western offer rather less in the way of freebies, but probably get second place overall thanks to the awesome leather seats, which really are way better than any other seat on any other train Ive experienced. And it may just be my taste, but their coffee and tea is the best. They really should have wi-fi by now though.

Obviously the London commuter franchises (Southern, FCC, Southeastern) are the worst, since they dont really offer anything for the First Class traveller, aside from a slightly better chance of getting a seat.

 

[sarahj]

The first class seats on our 442's are very nice, and they recline. First on our 377's are the same seats, sometimes with a power socket. On these services first is mainly a way of getting a seat on busy services.
If there is a trolley you should get free tea, coffee or water. If they dont offer, let us know. I do know that the lewes based staff are on the ball with this (this covers the vic-hhe/ebn/ore/lit services). The brighton express staff i'm not so sure. Except for howard, the others seem to get through a high turn around of staff and I never seem to know any of them.

 

[soil]

I think some people miss the point of First Class on commuter trains. I use FCC a lot and it's the availability of seats that's most important. During the off peak I agree it's a waste of money unless it's part of a longer ticket.

This is correct. The premium is typically around 50% on a season ticket for 1st class. Considering the cramped and unpleasant experience in standard on commuter trains, this is a pretty good deal compared to other premium travel options.

 

[Monty]

I've always thought the first class offered by SWT is not particularly appealing on our out suburban routes. Not so bad in our 158/9s or 444s but in the 450s and 458s I do find lacking.

 

[David Goddard]

Having used First Class on most TOCS (franchised and open access) on our All Line Rover last year, we found the best for comfort to be on FGW and East Coast.
For food we preferred Virgin the best, they even went out of their way to supply us withsomething between Holyhead and Llandudno Junction at 0700, although they only officially start taking orders from Bangor. East Coast was particularly disapponting on breakfast, with rubbery scrambled egg spoiling the otherwise ok smoked salmon, and no flexibility on items in cooked.
Scotrail and TPE brought pleasant suprises, with the trolley service providing as much tea as we wanted, together with items from a little wicker basket of cakes and pastries, even at 1830 between Aberdeen and Inverness!
Did not expect much from Southern and South Eastern, but the environment was pleasant- even on the packed Friday 1937 Vic-Brighton.

Was at Kings Cross yesterday and saw the abismal state of FC on FCC's 317348. Nothing special at all, worse than when built. WAGN did a good job on FC when they refurbed 317/s into 317/6s, but the first series units were untouched and FCC have done little bar new seat covers to improve these now 30 year old workhorses.

 

[ushawk]

I don't think things are really much better on 171s. The seats are slightly better and supposedly have a sort of reclining mechanism. However, I find Standard Class seats on both 377s and 171s perfectly comfortable (except some 3+2 seats on 377s).

171s are MUCH better for first class, for starters you are certain to get a plug socket unlike 377s which you only get one on a 377/4. Also get reclining(ish) seats on a 171 and the seats are bigger !! FC is also separate as it has sliding doors.

Southeastern is the worst though, sections are open with the rest of the train and you get no benefits other than a seat !!

Virgin, for me, is the best and ive never had a problem. Great staff, great service and a good offering.

 

[Goatboy]

Among those I've been on, I think East Coast probably win, although they do have the unfair advantage of being my longest First Class run to date - which also won't be beaten any time soon because on such journey was on the longest possible First Class route in the country.

I thought XC operated the longest route in the country - which has First Class accomodation, too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Of the First Class services on the routes I use most often, my favourite is First Great Western. It genuinelly feels much nicer in First - as it should - and the big leather seats are lovely.

The worst is, for resaons otherwise discussed, London Midland. I sampled it on an &Connections advance which I purchased mainly for the FGW segment so didn't feel too put out but it wasn't even as good as standard on an SWT 159 let alone proper First Class.

And on the SWT 159 note - I travelled on one today in First. The seats look much more inviting than those in standard but I actually found them less comfortable. Had the train been quieter I'd have been happy to sit in Standard instead.

 

[amcluesent]

Scotrail from GLC-EDB as 1) there are far too few seats in FC so you still risk standing and 2) the haphazard availability of trolley
XC from PBO to SSD, the trolley very rarely makes an appearance
FCC on KGX to PBO, as there is no guard on late night services FC is rammed with lagered-up chavs.

Best now EC*, best ever GNER!

 

[Ivo]

I've always thought the first class offered by SWT is not particularly appealing on our out suburban routes. Not so bad in our 158/9s or 444s but in the 450s and 458s I do find lacking.

Really? I haven't used the 450s but the 458s considering their true suburban nature (they are 3+2 after all) really are quite good...

Curtains, entry doors, sockets, comfortable 2+2, even lamps I seem to recall?

For a 40-mile London suburban route that is outstanding. And the last time I used it I got in free (all the way from Clapham Junction to Reading)! Said journey just had to involve the first time I had ever seen an RPI on SWT didn't it?

I thought XC operated the longest route in the country - which has First Class accomodation, too.

Correct: My bad. It is certainly the longest I have used though, and also the longest to or from London.

 

[Manchester77]

Best I'd have to say it's between East Coast and Virgin but can't really pick between.

Worst, London Midland. I thought I'd treat myself to First Class from Birmingham to Euston on a 350. Have to say not really that much difference other than the seats had a different moquette and they were all around tables.

Not really had that much experience with First Class and other non-InterCity operators.

Have to say that First Transpennine offer a surprisingly good first class (for the routes and services operated)

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Am surprised no one has mentioned Hull Trains - I can't believe they are operated by First as their 1st class offering has been the best of any of them - even at weekends. Cutlery and crockery and hot food and very friendly and amenable staff. I wouldn't count local commuter trains as where they do provide first class you are basically paying for a seat (though still doesn't mean you get one).
Worse for longer distance is a toss up between East Midland and Virgin - particularly so at weekends. On numerous occassions standard class has been les crowded and pleasanter travel in with East Midland.

 

[trainophile]

TPE is fine on 170s, less so on 185s which tend to be filled with standees anyway.

"Tend to be filled with standees"? Do you mean people who have paid for a 1st Class ticket (with seat reservation) yet still have to stand? I wouldn't be at all happy with that.

Is there a guide as to which train types service which routes? Currently looking at Bolton to Windermere and tempted by some Advance 1st Class fares, but if I'd have to stand anyway I might as well stand in Standard (is that why it's called Standard? ).

 

[ainsworth74]

Class 170s operate on Hull - Manchester (and Liverpool), Cleethorpes - Manchester and on services to York on occasion. They do not operate on any other services. 185s have a larger first class compartment (with more seats and standing space) than 170s so if a 185 was full and standing in first then it's likely you wouldn't even be able to fit in the first class compartment on a 170.

 

[Qwerty133]

Am surprised no one has mentioned Hull Trains - I can't believe they are operated by First as their 1st class offering has been the best of any of them - even at weekends. Cutlery and crockery and hot food and very friendly and amenable staff. I wouldn't count local commuter trains as where they do provide first class you are basically paying for a seat (though still doesn't mean you get one).
Worse for longer distance is a toss up between East Midland and Virgin - particularly so at weekends. On numerous occassions standard class has been les crowded and pleasanter travel in with East Midland.

When do you travel on EMT as I have never seen more than 3 people in first class on a lot of services (admittedly this is only through windows and from standard as I have never travelled first class), however EMT first class seats (meridian) are very comfortable.