Out Of Use Sidings / Loops

[RichmondCommu]

G'day,

Just curious to know when sidings / loops are considered to be out of use. There are plenty of examples around the network that still appear to be connected to the main line but don't appear to have been used in a long time.

Two examples come to mind; the sidings at Garsdale and the loops nearest to platform 6 at Derby station.

Any other examples / answers to my query would be most welcome!

Kind regards,

Richmond Commuter!

 

[Crossover]

There are a few sidings round Stafford that last time I saw just had loads of old wagons on it. Not sure if they are classed as out of use or not, though

 

[AlexS]

The carriage sidings at Derby are used from time to time to stable charter stock and for other sundry uses.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The carriage sidings at Derby are used from time to time to stable charter stock and for other sundry uses.

Ok thanks for that. They looked very rusty a few weeks a go so that's why I asked!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Glazebrook - there's a loop and siding where the order freight route joins the clc route from Manchester o Warrington

vitriol works - the loop by the signalbox

Bartley - some disconnected sidings near komatsu

Garforth - the former connection into the vickers works

 

[Mugby]

I would imagine there are literally hundreds around the network.

Two that spring to my mind are on the Derby to Stoke line, the down side loop at Uttoxeter and the up and down loops at Caverswall.

With only an hourly passenger service, it's hard to imagine anything would need to put inside.

 

[30907]

But just because they are NOT used doesn't mean they CAN'T be used which is what OOU means.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I would imagine there are literally hundreds around the network.

Two that spring to my mind are on the Derby to Stoke line, the down side loop at Uttoxeter and the up and down loops at Caverswall.

With only an hourly passenger service, it's hard to imagine anything would need to put inside.

I would imagine that providing the points are not causing any problems it's more cost effective to leave them in place?

 

[Geeves]

In regards to Vitriol Works and the last poster that loop definitely cannot be used currently. The loop may still be there but the point-work to enter and exit said loop is missing!

 

[RichmondCommu]

But just because they are NOT used doesn't mean they CAN'T be used which is what OOU means.

Does OOU mean that the points have now been removed?

 

[Kentish Paul]

Not sure when the loops at Headcorn were last used. The last time i ventured that way they were pretty rusty. Back in my commuting days on the way home their was the odd occasion when we transited the down loop on the approach to the Headcorn stop. Not sure why as we never stopped on the loop. Maybe it was to make sure everything was still working !

I think the loops were put in to cater for the vast amounts of Channel Tunnel freight traffic which never materialised.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Many of the sidings at Abbey Foregate (Shrewsbury) are out of use - considering how crowded the in-use sidings are (for DMUs) you'd imagine Network Rail would bring the others into use...

 

[Tomnick]

I would imagine there are literally hundreds around the network.

Two that spring to my mind are on the Derby to Stoke line, the down side loop at Uttoxeter and the up and down loops at Caverswall.

With only an hourly passenger service, it's hard to imagine anything would need to put inside.

Both good examples of lines that appear to be out of use, but are available for use when required. The loops at Caverswall do, I believe, see limited use by freights - I can't be sure, but I'm sure I've "seen" one or two go inside when following its progress on TRUST (forward planning!). The loop at Uttoxeter isn't used regularly, but it proved its worth a couple of years ago (and probably on other occasions too) when a unit had to be dumped there before going back home on a wheelskate following the end of service.

 

[lancastrian]

There are three siding behind the Inverness platform at Blair Athol. I don't know whether they are OOU, but if anyone tried to use them it would be very hard if not impossible to.

Simply because there are trees growing in the four foot, so how anything could be placed there totally escapes me.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Both good examples of lines that appear to be out of use, but are available for use when required.

Are these loops checked from time to time to ensure that they are still fit for use? It would clearly be a disaster if while trying to enter a loop a train became derailed!

 

[455driver]

Many of the sidings at Abbey Foregate (Shrewsbury) are out of use - considering how crowded the in-use sidings are (for DMUs) you'd imagine Network Rail would bring the others into use...

Why would NR want to pay to re-instate sidings that no TOC wants to use?

Once they are brought back into use (which costs money) they have to be maintained (which costs money), and with nobody paying to use them it would be money wasted.

One definition of "out of use" is "no longer maintained" even though they may be physically connected to the National Network with all signalling in place and working the points will be clipped and scotched and the route will be collared in the signal box preventing the route being requested.

 

[Tomnick]

Are these loops checked from time to time to ensure that they are still fit for use? It would clearly be a disaster if while trying to enter a loop a train became derailed!

I'd imagine so! I don't, though, know exactly what (in terms of frequency of inspections) is required for a little-used and low speed bit of railway, and I also don't know how much difference the distinction between a running line and a siding makes in this respect.

 

[transportphoto]

I am told that the Hethersett Oil Terminal sidings are still there and available for use if needed, there may some foliage and a locked gate in the way, but it still remains signal-able as far as I am aware! Despite this, I don't think a train has been down there for a good few years, last I know of was an on track machine in the early 90's!

TP

 

[chappers]

I am told that the Hethersett Oil Terminal sidings are still there and available for use if needed, there may some foliage and a locked gate in the way, but it still remains signal-able as far as I am aware! Despite this, I don't think a train has been down there for a good few years, last I know of was an on track machine in the early 90's!

TP

Not quite - the points leading into them have been Plain-lined. Everything else is still there though, and surprisingly clear

 

[Crossover]

Thinking about it, there's a fair amount of ridings between Wakefield Kirkgate and Thornhill LNW Junction, some of which are clearly out of use. Some of the unused may have signals still.

I think one problem of using very OOU sidings is losing trains. I'm sure I read here somewhere a while back of something like this happening and stopping the show on the mainline as the sidings were so rusty, it couldn't be proven that the loco in question was in there because the TC's couldn't operate

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This thread takes me back to thread that I opened in 2011 on this forum concerning abandoned freight wagons (some with trees growing through them) in long-disused sidings. The area that I referred to was the long-abandoned sidings between Bolton and Moses Gate in the Manchester-bound direction. I was amazed to find just how many responses, over 100 in total, some with photographs, that were posted on this thread. The oldest wagon noted was an arcane oil tank wagon going back to the 1920's..hock:

 

[The Informer]

Many of the sidings at Abbey Foregate (Shrewsbury) are out of use - considering how crowded the in-use sidings are (for DMUs) you'd imagine Network Rail would bring the others into use...

You will find NR don't own the carriage sidings at AF. As daft as it sounds it is true. Otherwise they would have to be inspected and maintained by NR staff to which they are not.

 

[JohnB57]

Thinking about it, there's a fair amount of sidings between Wakefield Kirkgate and Thornhill LNW Junction, some of which are clearly out of use. Some of the unused may have signals still.

Healey Mills Yard I presume?

 

[GatwickDepress]

Unusually, Ore's carriage and goods sidings are long gone (now a housing estate named "The Sidings"), yet I believe it still has the single-track connection to the "up" line in place along with a signal set permanently at red. You'd think they would've removed those points.

This thread takes me back to thread that I opened in 2011 on this forum concerning abandoned freight wagons (some with trees growing through them) in long-disused sidings. The area that I referred to was the long-abandoned sidings between Bolton and Moses Gate in the Manchester-bound direction. I was amazed to find just how many responses, over 100 in total, some with photographs, that were posted on this thread. The oldest wagon noted was an arcane oil tank wagon going back to the 1920's..hock:

Do you have a link to your thread? It sounds like an incredibly fascinating read.

Speaking of which, down Brighton way there's a few disused sidings parallel to the line (Brighton Main Line, on the left-hand side when Brighton bound) one of which that had a rusted frame of what is perhaps a maintenance vehicle on the metals. I've never managed to get a decent enough look to identify it.

 

[The Planner]

As people have already alluded to, it is highly dependent on who actually owns the sidings. They may be network siding or they may be private and have a connection agreement with NR. If the latter is the case then they cannot be ripped up without the siding owner agreeing that they have no further use for them now or in the future. Other sidings should be maintained if they are in the sectional appendix (although not all are...). The issue is that when maintenance want to remove sidings to lower their budgets, they have to go through Network Change to consult stakeholders and TOCs. This is then the big problem as operators can claim compensation if they can prove they would have a future use or the could be used now (as mentioned previously, just because they have 6 ft Birch trees in does not mean they are out of use....). Counter arguments are normally that if left then it would lead to TSRs over pointwork etc...

 

[Wath Yard]

The Deepdale branch in Preston is officially classified as 'Out of Use' but the points to it have been replaced with plain track so it is impossible to use, and is therefore closed, although not officially.

The Network Rail website has huge amounts of information on just about everything. There is this document for example:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...e d5_gauge capability_freight_lnw n route.pdf

Which shows if a line out of use. Padiham Power Station is another out of use line and I don't think that can be accessed either, or has had any traffic for over a decade.

 

[The Planner]

The Deepdale branch in Preston is officially classified as 'Out of Use' but the points to it have been replaced with plain track so it is impossible to use, and is therefore closed, although not officially.

That is the crux of it though, it isn't closed, so if someone said they have a proposal to use it with a strong business case, the points would have to be put back in.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do you have a link to your thread? It sounds like an incredibly fascinating read.

Unlike those to whom this request will be childs play, unfortunately I cannot do this....

However, go to the "Traction and Rolling Stock" forum, go to the "search" facility at the top of the section and make sure that "threads" (not posts) is shown and enter:-
Who owns "dumped" freight stock

That thread has a total of 139 postings upon it.

 

[Cletus]

Unlike those to whom this request will be childs play, unfortunately I cannot do this....

However, go to the "Traction and Rolling Stock" forum, go to the "search" facility at the top of the section and make sure that "threads" (not posts) is shown and enter:-
Who owns "dumped" freight stock

That thread has a total of 139 postings upon it.

This is it:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68015&highlight=Moses+gate

 

[steevp]

This is it:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68015&highlight=Moses+gate

Thanks Cletus and the OP - interesting read