First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[All Line Rover]

All First could do is make it more expensive. Im just worried the reduction in Anytime fares will mean Saver tickets rising by around the same to make up. But, we shall see. Dont think anyone outside First know for sure what will happen regarding this.

The regulated Off-Peak and Season ticket fares will rise in line with government fares policy - RPI+3% (+-5%) this year and next year, RPI+1% (+-5%) for a good few years after. I expect First to increase the "premium" to/from London fares by the maximum amount possible (they can do so providing intermediate lesser used fares are increased by a smaller amount).

Don't be surprised if a Manchester to London SVR costs around £100 and a Glasgow to London SVR around £175 by 2015/2016. (Current prices are £74.20 and £121.60 respectively).

EDIT: The Manchester to London SVR is surprisingly cheap, actually. A Leeds to London SSR (practically identical restrictions) already costs £94.10.

 

[junglejames]

The short answer is "yes".

The slightly longer answer is "It depends who you ask".

 

[YorkshireRider]

Am I simplifying things ?

I dont think so, no, but im no expert. I just cant get my head round the seemingly small penalty for handing the keys back given everything thats happened on the ECML.

 

[dvboy]

cant believe the number of people on twitter and facebook thinking this means pendolinos will be replaced by something inferior

9th december nothing will be differerent except for some new stickers on the trains

 

[bnm]

Transport minister interviewed on Radio 4 stated that the “new routes to Blackpool, Telford and Shrewsbury will be trials”.

Looks like after just half a day my scepticism is well founded!!

Of course they will be trials. And likely bound to fail if your fellow Salopians, like you, would rather pay more, purchase two tickets and take an hour longer by travelling via Newport to London. :roll:

 

[junglejames]

The regulated Off-Peak and Season ticket fares will rise in line with government fares policy - RPI+3% (+-5%) this year and next year, RPI+1% (+-5%) for a good few years after. I expect First to increase the "premium" to/from London fares by the maximum amount possible (they can do so providing intermediate lesser used fares are increased by a smaller amount).

Don't be surprised if a Manchester to London SVR costs around £100 and a Glasgow to London SVR around £175 by 2015/2016. (Current prices are £74.20 and £121.60 respectively).

EDIT: The Manchester to London SVR is surprisingly cheap, actually. A Leeds to London SSR (practically identical restrictions) already costs £94.10.

Yes true, the Savers arent quite as bad as some others.
Well thats my worry. First may well increase Savers more than necessary. To the full amount allowed by the DFT.
Do Virgin have Super Savers yet? Cant remember. If not, thats one way of increasing fares rediculously. Change the name of the Savers to Supersavers (and add in more restrictions of course), then introdue a new ticket type (now called saver or Off peak) which isnt regulated.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

cant believe the number of people on twitter and facebook thinking this means pendolinos will be replaced by something inferior

I know. Its not possible to find anything inferior.
Crikey, bring back the 141s from Iran and they will look luxurious compared to bendy pendys

 

[Greenback]

Yes true, the Savers arent quite as bad as some others.
Well thats my worry. First may well increase Savers more than necessary. To the full amount allowed by the DFT.
Do Virgin have Super Savers yet? Cant remember. If not, thats one way of increasing fares rediculously. Change the name of the Savers to Supersavers (and add in more restrictions of course), then introdue a new ticket type (now called saver or Off peak) which isnt regulated.

You mean, of course, Off Peak and Super Off Peak.

 

[island]

As mentioned above, off-peak tickets from Euston to Preston and further south (except Shotton to Holyhead) are regulated and already very near to the maximum limit of peak times. So that won't work.

 

[Yew]

As to type of EMU, nobody other than Alstom has a tilting 125mph train of UK gauge on their books, and no doubt they have already worked up a 6-car design and offered it to First

I suppose its not impossible it could be something from bombardier, Some sort of electro Voyager without the diesel engines, however knowing bombardier's record for Innovation of an existing design

Thinking about it, they have the APT schematics somewhere

 

[jon0844]

It's fascinating but not surprising that Joe Public think that the trains belong, and are provided by, an operator. And therefore they're going to now lose the trains for something inferior. After all, the public always blame the operator for having old or short trains as if the TOC can do much about it.

And isn't First the only company that actually did buy its own trains (for FGW) , but will likely sell/lease them to the next operator if they don't win (or bid for) the franchise next time.

 

[snail]

How will trains reach Bolton? Via the crowded Platforms 13 and 14 at Manchester Piccadilly?

It was mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

[Realfish]

Having read FWC PR and listened to their CEO today, it seems to me that their innovations are little more than froth, rehashing things that VT had in hand or were part of the bid criteria.

When VT publish their bid document tomorrow expect there to be little difference from the First bid.

So what is the real reason for the DfT decision? Simply money? or is the clue in this post that I stumbled on, reminding me of VT's serious spat with DfT over the stengthening of the Pendelino fleet. If I recall there was a lot of bad blood and the 'stalling' by the hopeless DfT cost the industry a serious amount of ££££

'...and the battle to deliver 11 coach Pendolinos, where eventually you were proved right and DfT's stalling, a regime that gave us overcrowded trains and the costs of last minute delvery.'

In this country, Beardy, if you find yourself on the outside, you'll never beat the establishment, especially the Civil Service, as Bob Diamond will tell you.

 

[Zoe]

And isn't First the only company that actually did buy its own trains (for FGW)

Stagecoach own the Island Line stock outright.

 

[Class 33]

Safety is more important, the IC70 seats were not crashworthy.

Well what about the recently refurbished seating in Chiltern's Class 67 and mk3 coaches? They must be crashworthy surely? Comfortable and not claustrophobic cubicle like, 1990's style Intercity seating brought up to modern day standards. I'm sure a fair number of other people agree with me this is far better seating than the Voyager, Pendolino and refurbished FGW HST seating. Does anyone here actually like the refurbished HST seating?

Also the refurbished seating in the East Midlands Trains HST's. They don't appear to be too much different to the old HST seating, they're not high back seating. They must be crashworthy too?

 

[6Gman]

Having read FWC PR and listened to their CEO today, it seems to me that their innovations are little more than froth, rehashing things that VT had in hand or were part of the bid criteria.

When VT publish their bid document tomorrow expect there to be little difference from the First bid.

So what is the real reason for the DfT decision? Simply money? or is the clue in this post that I stumbled on, reminding me of VT's serious spat with DfT over the stengthening of the Pendelino fleet. If I recall there was a lot of bad blood and the 'stalling' by the hopeless DfT cost the industry a serious amount of ££££

'...and the battle to deliver 11 coach Pendolinos, where eventually you were proved right and DfT's stalling, a regime that gave us overcrowded trains and the costs of last minute delvery.'

In this country, Beardy, if you find yourself on the outside, you'll never beat the establishment, especially the Civil Service, as Bob Diamond will tell you.

Yeah, he'll never get a knighthood will he?

Oh, er ....

 

[ainsworth74]

Stagecoach own the Island Line stock outright.

Though wasn't that bought for a token amount rather than a market rate such as the FGW HSTs would have been?

1990's style Intercity seating brought up to modern day standards.

1990s? More like 1970s! Also in what way have they been brought up to modern standards? They're still as 'unsafe' (by which I mean they don't meat modern safety regulations), they still don't meet modern requirements for accessibility and they still have those ridiculous fixed arm rests. In what way have they been modernised?

 

[YorkshireBear]

It now says that Tony Miles has said that basically this is it. Make or break for First, mess it up and thats it, Suceed and its fantastic for First.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Well what about the recently refurbished seating in Chiltern's Class 67 and mk3 coaches? They must be crashworthy surely? Comfortable and not claustrophobic cubicle like, 1990's style Intercity seating brought up to modern day standards. I'm sure a fair number of other people agree with me this is far better seating than the Voyager, Pendolino and refurbished FGW HST seating.

And how many seats will be lost per HST compared to what there is now and people even now moan about overcrowding. Why not take a few seats out and make even more people moan.

I feel sorry for FGW at times, no matter what they do people complain, they add more seats, people moan there are not enough tables or spacing between seats, they have less seats, and people moan about overcrowding.

And even then they moan at FGW due to penny pinching and not running extra trains, despite the fact that the DFT is responsible for delays to rolling stock orders, and downright cancellation as in the big DMU order, none of which is under direct control of FGW.

I'm just waiting now for people to moan that the class 180's are too unreliable, but if they had not brought them in people would moan they are not doing all they can to bring stock in :roll:

 

[WatcherZero]

I suppose we should have a technical interview and breakdown of the bid in the next RAIL in a week, whens the next Modern Railways out? Sometimes their a bit iffy of news in the week or so before its published and you have to wait another four weeks for them to cover it unless they did a embargoed interview in anticipation of publication date.

 

[jon0844]

Stagecoach own the Island Line stock outright.

Ah yes, purchased for a nominal fee.

And let's hope the Virgin bid wasn't too similar or we'll see the accusations that someone obtained access to a bid before it was submitted...

 

[LE Greys]

Some of the branding will be quite difficult to change.
Isn't some of it etched into the window glass?
My last Pendolino run was in "Virgin Difference", so that's one nameplate to change, along with about 30 others.
The "City of ..." series can stay.
"Mission Accomplished" might get a run as "Mission Lost" for a bit.
Time for a return to proper West Coast names: Coeur de Lion, Robert the Bruce, Lancashire Witch, Sans Pareil etc.
First have also retained GW train names - Royal Scot anyone?

I know it's really window-dressing, but at least Virgin took naming seriously, with unified themes containing only a few breaks.

If a non-stop Royal Scot is possible, it will make things interesting if First try to take on EC in a new Race to the North. Glasgow-Euston is possible in four hours (I was on the train that proved it). It really depends on whether First think they can attract passengers with speed or not. If they think they can, then they are welcome to try.

 

[Wath Yard]

deleted

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Will the additional Blackpool/Preston/Bolton trains be one service ?

(say like using a voyager on the Euston-Crewe-Manchester service and then extending it to Blackpool via Bolton)

 

[oliMw]

Let's hope that Virgin bid for the Greater Anglia franchise next year, maybe they could work there magic on another delay ridden service with outdated infrastructure. But it seems that DFT may have put off virgin from the uk rail system for a few years at least :

 

[Zoe]

Let's hope that Virgin bid for the Greater Anglia franchise next year, maybe they could work there magic on another delay ridden service with outdated infrastructure.

I doubt Virgin will be interested in running 153s to Sherringham.

 

[ainsworth74]

Let's hope that Virgin bid for the Greater Anglia franchise next year, maybe they could work there magic on another delay ridden service with outdated infrastructure.

They don't do commuter railways. You'll notice the only franchises they've bid for are those that are long distance only affairs. Which means the only franchise left to them is ICEC but that looks like it might well become a multi-purpose franchise itself in which case either they change and accept that they'll be running some services that aren't long distance or drop out of the market entirely.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Let's hope that Virgin bid for the Greater Anglia franchise next year, maybe they could work there magic on another delay ridden service with outdated infrastructure. But it seems that DFT may have put off virgin from the uk rail system for a few years at least :

It's all part of smoke and mirrors, Virgin are coming out with this kind of talk in the hope it will boost their chances in future franchise awards, they have no intention of walking away from the railways on a permanent basis, but it does make for interesting PR and makes the public feel sorry for them, drumming up support and playing up the idea of an injustice.

 

[LE Greys]

Let's hope that Virgin bid for the Greater Anglia franchise next year, maybe they could work there magic on another delay ridden service with outdated infrastructure. But it seems that DFT may have put off virgin from the uk rail system for a few years at least :

I obviously can't speak for Branson, but from what he said on the news earlier, he's giving up on railways. This would not be the first time he's known when to quit, he got out of the record business at just the right time. I expect we've seen the last of Virgin Trains.

 

[Zoe]

They don't do commuter railways. You'll notice the only franchises they've bid for are those that are long distance only affairs. Which means the only franchise left to them is ICEC but that looks like it might well become a multi-purpose franchise itself in which case either they change and accept that they'll be running some services that aren't long distance or drop out of the market entirely.

Could different branding be used for different services? For example the intercity services branded Virgin and the London commuter services branded Great Northern Trains? Stagecoach use different branding for the Island Line even though it's part of a single South Western franchise.

 

[sparks2000]

That's what I was thinking - although nothing as smart as that one.

I was thinking http://www.focustransport.org.uk/imduple/dg03.jpg - look how comfortable the crowded (and presumably hot) passengers look - compare that with next time you see the scrum in the back of the Pendo or Voyager.

Lot of interesting photos on that site :- http://www.focustransport.org.uk/sightduple.aspx