ATW 14th May timetable published

[Gareth Marston]

During the summer months it was the practice to have two people on ticket checking/issuing duties. I don't know if this is still the case.

Was last summer - on the coast only though. Its due to the large numbers of tourists that do short hops like Fairbourne- Barmouth one conductor stands no chance.

 

[PHILIPE]

Most people agree that if your having to have yet more north to south Wales trains then the timing of "WAG2" is sub optimal to the market. Lost of folk have suggested a "WAG3" but heading north in AM and south in PM.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Sources at ATW have told me that the number of coast portions attaching/detaching at Machynlleth will only be a key 1 or 2 trains a day some coast diagrams will start/finish at Dyfi Jnc and connect there to the hourly Aberystwyth to Birmingham trains. You don't need to run 6 4 car & 1 6 car trains a day between Salop and Machynlleth if you have hourly.

Total units needed for self contained Cambrian coast (3) , 2 car Cambrian hourly west of Shrewsbury (4), 2 car 2 hourly Shrewsbury - Holyhead (3) and all ATW Shrewsbury- BHM INTL as 4 car (6) is just 16. That leaves another 8 158's to strengthen key trains west of Shrewsbury etc.

Mean change at a rainlashed, windswept and back of beyond Dyfi Jn. Somebody must be pulling your leg or have I misunderstood. Timetable and Joirney Planner indicate through portions as now, attaching/detaching at Maxhynlleth.

 

[SprinterMan]

Does this mean they will announce the train at Birmingham as to "Aberystwyth and Pwllheli" rather than just to Aberystwyth.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Mean change at a rainlashed, windswept and back of beyond Dyfi Jn. Somebody must be pulling your leg or have I misunderstood. Timetable and Joirney Planner indicate through portions as now, attaching/detaching at Maxhynlleth.

I was referring to when hourly service is introduced.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Does this mean they will announce the train at Birmingham as to "Aberystwyth and Pwllheli" rather than just to Aberystwyth.

I've seen plenty of people confused by New St not recognizing the split portions. A few years ago one of our members got a reply from NR about this and the NR bod thought the Cambrian Coast was on the Shrewsbury to Chester line!

 

[PHILIPE]

I was referring to when hourly service is introduced.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've seen plenty of people confused by New St not recognizing the split portions. A few years ago one of our members got a reply from NR about this and the NR bod thought the Cambrian Coast was on the Shrewsbury to Chester line!

Excuse spelling mistake in my Dyfi Jc post. Should have checked first In any case no 'x' in the Welsh Language !!! "Ddim o gwbl". Still have to change at this outpost if and when the hourly service ever starts. Thanks for clearing up.

 

[merlodlliw]

I can confirm an ATW service change from Sept timetable, see traction & rolling stock thread, under the header 67 via Wrexham from Sept 17th/ official.

Bob

 

[PHILIPE]

In the Timetable the additional ERTMS 158 for strengthening comes off the Chester to Crewe Local and replaced by a 150 and not off Maesteg to Cheltenham as first thought being replaced by an additional 150. It has been achieved without an additional diagram by making use of down time in the Ebbw Vales at Cardiff whuch become intermixed with Maestegs to Cheltenham and the additional September last Fishguard 150 so saving one 150. This means a number of Ebbw Vales will be 158s.
Now the good news for campaogners for the Fishguard day boat to be a 158 which should happen when 175002 is back in traffic as a 158 is tempoarily covering a Manchester to West Wales and being replaced by a temporary 150. It should come off 09 40 from Ebbw Vale. The down times of the 150 and 153 at Swaansea should be eliminated also. -

 

[Gareth Marston]

In the Timetable the additional ERTMS 158 for strengthening comes off the Chester to Crewe Local and replaced by a 150 and not off Maesteg to Cheltenham as first thought being replaced by an additional 150. It has been achieved without an additional diagram by making use of down time in the Ebbw Vales at Cardiff whuch become intermixed with Maestegs to Cheltenham and the additional September last Fishguard 150 so saving one 150. This means a number of Ebbw Vales will be 158s.
Now the good news for campaogners for the Fishguard day boat to be a 158 which should happen when 175002 is back in traffic as a 158 is tempoarily covering a Manchester to West Wales and being replaced by a temporary 150. It should come off 09 40 from Ebbw Vale. The down times of the 150 and 153 at Swaansea should be eliminated also. -

The Ebbw Vale line has always been unit hungry as the arriving train from the Vale passes the departing train at Cardiff and then piddles around Canton for an hour effectively meaning one unit out of action all day.

The cost WG are paying ATW for the 3 year trial to Fishguard is I'm told inclusive of additional leasing charges yet in reality its all being run by units that are already being paid for.

 

[PHILIPE]

The Ebbw Vale line has always been unit hungry as the arriving train from the Vale passes the departing train at Cardiff and then piddles around Canton for an hour effectively meaning one unit out of action all day.

The cost WG are paying ATW for the 3 year trial to Fishguard is I'm told inclusive of additional leasing charges yet in reality its all being run by units that are already being paid for.

Often the Ebbw Vales turn straight round in Cardiff if short of units. They usually arrive so early that they return Right Time but technically there are pathing constraints preventing them from being timed to do this.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I thought the new timetable's Cambrian - Birmingham - Holyhead strengthening brought the total number of units required on the ERTMS curcuit to twenty units. My guess is three class 158s can't be diagramed each day due to maintenance requirements etc. If I'm right, that means only one 158 is left over to be diagramed away from that curcuit, and not even that until the refurbishment program is complete. In other words:

• 20 158s on the ERTMS-required curcuit
• 3 class 158s booked for maintenance
• 1 class 158 in for refurbishment, once program is complete this will make a 158 available for the Saturdays only Manchester - Milford 158 diagram. From May 14th until the refurb program is done I'd guess that Saturday Manchester - Milford will be a 150.

With those numbers, the 158s will have to come off both the Chester - Crewe shuttle and the Maesteg - Cheltenham route.

It has been achieved without an additional diagram by making use of down time in the Ebbw Vales at Cardiff whuch become intermixed with Maestegs to Cheltenham and the additional September last Fishguard 150 so saving one 150. This means a number of Ebbw Vales will be 158s.

By the additional Fishguard 150, do you mean the 15:14 CDF - FGH which will become the 16:04 out of Cardiff and start from Gloucester? Assuming I'm wrong above and there will still be several 158s about outside the ERTMS curciut, does this mean the 16:04 Cardiff to Fishguard will be a 158? Are these changes from May 14th or the September timetable?

Now the good news for campaogners for the Fishguard day boat to be a 158 which should happen when 175002 is back in traffic as a 158 is tempoarily covering a Manchester to West Wales and being replaced by a temporary 150. It should come off 09 40 from Ebbw Vale. The down times of the 150 and 153 at Swaansea should be eliminated also. -

What will the 150 and 153 that sit idle at Swansea be doing in the new timetable then? In fact, there can't be many class 153 diagrams so any chance you could let us know them all (for the new May 14th timetable)? I've tried to figure it out but I got confused. Might the 175 on WAG2 be back before 175002 is fixed?

Some more questions:
What happens to the unit from the Valleys strengthening that currently forms the Fishguard boat train?

Can my idea of an 08:50 Carmarthen - Cardiff (perhaps starting from Fishguard at 07:55) and a 17:54 Cardiff - Fishguard, both using 158s and operating via the Swansea District Line, be accomodated? Apart from the overnight stabling at Carmarthen meaning the unit would never get fuel, these (plus the Fishguard boat train) could be operated by a single unit.

 

[PHILIPE]

Currently 15 ERTMS 158 Diagrams and only one required for the additional strengthening making 16. Still 20 Diagrams with 4 for Maintenamce.
15 04 Cardiff to Fishguatd 150 through from Gloucester instead of 14 45 Cheltenjam to Maesteg.
153 at Swansea reverts to pre Fishguard additional working, i.e. 13 10 Swansea to Cardiff due 0709 Pembroke Dock having gone through to Cardiff and then 15 14 return which is re-instated. There is an additional between Cardiff and Swansea in the afternoon (16 04 to Fishguard)
The former Valleys strengthening absorbed with all Valley Diaggrams by substituting 2 x Pacers and replacing with a single 150.

 

[merlodlliw]

The Ebbw Vale line has always been unit hungry as the arriving train from the Vale passes the departing train at Cardiff and then piddles around Canton for an hour effectively meaning one unit out of action all day.

The cost WG are paying ATW for the 3 year trial to Fishguard is I'm told inclusive of additional leasing charges yet in reality its all being run by units that are already being paid for.

Indeed ATW are on to a nice little earner again, with experience of the 175 taken out of franchise & into OA.

 

[brianthegiant]

I have regularly travelled the line for about 10yrs now and only once have I seen a customer get off the train at Dyfi Junction. She was a student, got off, turned round to the guard and then got back on again.

Dyfi Junction potentially has more residents in it's catchment than some of the other stops on the Cambrian. For people in Glandyfi, Eglws Fach, Furnace, Derwenlas, etc it's probably the nearest station. And potentially less problematic for parking than Mach.

I certainly used to use Dyfi Jn to commute to Mach with my bike, when I lived Nr Eglws Fach.

Main reason more people don't use Dyfi Junction is lack of vehicle access for at least a km and extremely poor state of access track (knee deep puddles the width of the track).

I did complain to TRaCC/NR/ATW after my last visit about a year ago.
The NR response was a bit vague, I think what they meant was that they will look to see if urgent repairs are needed. But they are holding off from major work, whilst they plan work to upgrade the track for vehicle access. I dont know what is the current situation.

I suspect the vehicle access thing is complex in view of the SSSI, though clearly the bigger picture environmentally is that a short section of road here would reduce passenger car miles overall.

 

[merlodlliw]

Just got my hands on the ATW printed timetable number one, this edition is far better separating the Cambrian from Chester/Salop via Wrexham, much easier to understand. Edition four Nth Wales/Manchester had not arrived by this afternoon.

 

[D1009]

But they are holding off from major work, whilst they plan work to upgrade the track for vehicle access. I dont know what is the current situation.

I suspect the vehicle access thing is complex in view of the SSSI, though clearly the bigger picture environmentally is that a short section of road here would reduce passenger car miles overall.

Is there really a serious proposal to provide vehicle access to Dovey Junction/Cyffordd Dyfi?

 

[merlodlliw]

Is there really a serious proposal to provide vehicle access to Dovey Junction/Cyffordd Dyfi?

Out of interest, there must be access & egress for NR vehicles on the track,which will have been in place before triple SI.

Bob

 

[brianthegiant]

Is there really a serious proposal to provide vehicle access to Dovey Junction/Cyffordd Dyfi?

This is the letter from NR in response to my complaint about poor state of road. defo mentions vehicular access, but the wording isn't 100% clear what is planned..

Dear Mr ,
I am writing to inform you that Network Rail is the owners and maintainers of this access road from the A487. Following on from your concerns, I can confirm that we have made our Maintenance team aware of the situation and we’ve requested that they review the road condition in regards to interim works for vehicular access.

As soon as I have some further information regarding the above I will contact you again. In the meantime, should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards
Liam Bateman
Community Relations Advisor
Network Rail
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Out of interest, there must be access & egress for NR vehicles on the track,which will have been in place before triple SI.
Bob

Indeed there is a rough track laid with ballast which goes as far as the level foot crossing to the platform. It is currently gated near the A487.

 

[tirphil]

The rough ballast track has been improved over the last couple of weeks. With additional ballast. Road is much more level and even now.

As for parking capacity at the end of this track by the foot crossing at the Aber end of the Dyfi Main platform, there is little more than a turning circle and nothing else.

I am not aware of any plans for a car park to be built there at this moment.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'm not quite sure if you're all talking about actual timetables any more, but am I the only one who cannot download the new Number 3 (West Wales) timetable? It says that it either doesn't exist or I need a log in to view it when I click the link.

 

[brianthegiant]

The rough ballast track has been improved over the last couple of weeks. With additional ballast. Road is much more level and even now.

As for parking capacity at the end of this track by the foot crossing at the Aber end of the Dyfi Main platform, there is little more than a turning circle and nothing else.

I am not aware of any plans for a car park to be built there at this moment.

ah, well thats progress. do you know if it's still gated by the A487 though? & is the gate locked?

 

[D1009]

Dyfi Junction potentially has more residents in it's catchment than some of the other stops on the Cambrian. For people in Glandyfi, Eglws Fach, Furnace, Derwenlas, etc it's probably the nearest station. And potentially less problematic for parking than Mach.

I certainly used to use Dyfi Jn to commute to Mach with my bike, when I lived Nr Eglws Fach.

Main reason more people don't use Dyfi Junction is lack of vehicle access for at least a km and extremely poor state of access track (knee deep puddles the width of the track).

I did complain to TRaCC/NR/ATW after my last visit about a year ago.
The NR response was a bit vague, I think what they meant was that they will look to see if urgent repairs are needed. But they are holding off from major work, whilst they plan work to upgrade the track for vehicle access. I dont know what is the current situation.

I suspect the vehicle access thing is complex in view of the SSSI, though clearly the bigger picture environmentally is that a short section of road here would reduce passenger car miles overall.

Surely it would be cheaper and more convenient to reopen Glandyfi station than make the track to Dovey Junction a proper road and build a car park ? And there must be more deserving cases on the Cambrian, Bow Street for example ?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I note the 0425 HHD CDF on Saturdays now goes to MAN.

At least this is an improvement in the service to the Manchester Piccadilly hub area.

 

[merlodlliw]

I'm not quite sure if you're all talking about actual timetables any more, but am I the only one who cannot download the new Number 3 (West Wales) timetable? It says that it either doesn't exist or I need a log in to view it when I click the link.

its downloading OK, just tried it


Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

At least this is an improvement in the service to the Manchester Piccadilly hub area.

Agree, more are required for holiday traffic on weekends


Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ah, well thats progress. do you know if it's still gated by the A487 though? & is the gate locked?

Now thats an interesting point, is it a BOAT for permitted access, or just NR.

 

[tirphil]

ah, well thats progress. do you know if it's still gated by the A487 though? & is the gate locked?

It is still gated at the moment but their is a major road widening scheme taking place along that stretch of the A487 so quite what arrangements are in place for vehicular access to Dyfi Junction once the road scheme has been completed I dont know.

 

[brianthegiant]

Surely it would be cheaper and more convenient to reopen Glandyfi station than make the track to Dovey Junction a proper road and build a car park ? And there must be more deserving cases on the Cambrian, Bow Street for example ?

I would agree on the deserving argument, I think Bow St came out with a decent BCR (benefit cost ratio) in the recent TraCC study, Carno less so, details on the sarpa website.

But wrt costs to reopen a long defunct station, next to a live rail line, surprisingly expensive as the Carno campaign group are finding. You have all the civil works, lighting, electrical, shelter, seating, help point, etc, etc. even for the most basic station. all done to NR spec & safety rules by large contractors with big overheads.

Dont get me wrong, I agree that Bow St and Carno should be re-opened. but in the case of Dyfi Junction, (which has the advantage of platforms on both branches), I think laying a bit of tarmac on the approach to a pre-existing station probably has quite a good BCR, in that it would generate more passenger journeys for minimal spend.

 

[D1009]

but in the case of Dyfi Junction, (which has the advantage of platforms on both branches), I think laying a bit of tarmac on the approach to a pre-existing station probably has quite a good BCR, in that it would generate more passenger journeys for minimal spend.

I'm not sure it would generate all that many journeys, if people have to drive there they may as well drive to Mach, particularly if the road is being improved.

 

[jones_bangor]

I would agree on the deserving argument, I think Bow St came out with a decent BCR (benefit cost ratio) in the recent TraCC study, Carno less so, details on the sarpa website.

But wrt costs to reopen a long defunct station, next to a live rail line, surprisingly expensive as the Carno campaign group are finding. You have all the civil works, lighting, electrical, shelter, seating, help point, etc, etc. even for the most basic station. all done to NR spec & safety rules by large contractors with big overheads.

Dont get me wrong, I agree that Bow St and Carno should be re-opened. but in the case of Dyfi Junction, (which has the advantage of platforms on both branches), I think laying a bit of tarmac on the approach to a pre-existing station probably has quite a good BCR, in that it would generate more passenger journeys for minimal spend.

I agree that Carno should be reopened. The cost issues do illustrate why running a railway in the UK is so expensive.

 

[PHILIPE]

On Saturdays the 0425 off Holyhead is formed of two 175s. They divide at Chester with the leading unit forming the 0613 Manchester and the rear usnit forming the 0612 Cardiff Central. The timetable showing the train as a Manchester is more sensible as the rear unit is normally locked out and so in effect the used part of the train is a through service to Manchester.

That was the arrangement last year. This year 04 25 Holyhead is i Unit only going to Manchester. The Cardiff is independent starting at Chester
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I notice it was reported on another Forum that 13 23 Milford Haven to Manchester Sunday was formed 150 + 153 + 150. This is booked working with a 150 being detached at Cardiff and a 150 + 153 going forward to Manchester returning at 20 30. I thought I would post this in case anybody else had seen the post or the actual train and might be wondering.
The reason is there is just no 158 or 175 available to diagram which may seem strange on a Sunday. However, the Marches run hourly but West of Cardiff only 2 hourly and only 2 Holyheads in each direction. There is also an hourly Crewe to Holyhead on a Sunday worked by 175s also. This might give the impression that there would be units to spare but it does not work out quite like. There is a lot of down time in Diagrams where they may be hanging about and puts them in the wrong places and lack of services to move them around. There is a 175 booked on working between Swansea, Carmarthen Pembroke Dock and if that were to be worked away and let this be worked by a 150 there would be a shortfall of 175s at Carmarthen for a Monday morning.

 

[headshot119]

I also agree, the departure times of WAG2 are not suitable for purpose,the Dec 2012/13 timetable is supposed according to insiders to have dramatic changes,most people from Wrexham use either the 0530 or 0630 direct Cardiff trains when they travel South.

Bob

Have you ever actually traveled on either of these trains?

 

[redthunder]

I'm shocked nobody has mentioned another major change to the timetable which occurs on Monday to Friday now

The 1523 from Holyhead to Birmingham International (1G60) now leaves at 1544 & now runs non stop from Llandudno Junction to Chester
There is a new service now leaving Junction at 1625 (1D95) which calls at the stations which 1G60 now does not (Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Prestatyn, Flint) which terminates at Chester. 1D95 is run with a 158 which was the rear unit detached at Junction from 1D14 (1309 Birmingham Intl - Holyhead) arriving at Junction at 1612

The connection at Chester from the Holyhead train to the Euston train has now been almost halved as 1G60 doesnt arrive until 1725 with now 3 trains from North Wales arriving at Chester within 15 mins of each other, and if 1D14 is running late like it was today it makes everything else run late!!!!!!

Theres also a few of the other Holyhead services (From Birmingham) that have been strengthened to 4 cars from 2 (either full journey or as far as to/from Llandudno Junction)